relay wiring ?

[mat]

Hello,

I'm a 'bit' lost with the wiring of the relays on my clone

Would it be realistic to have four 5V DC relays from the heaters (trough diode bridge and regulator) ?

The sketch:

[img1025]http://www.pichotel.com/pic/16028B31e/46459.jpg[/img]

I would like to use 5 pin XLR with these. Is it possible to handle four switches with it ? I think I also need a switch to choose between front panel and foot switch option ?

I noticed I did't draw the cap (2200u 16V ?) between the bridge out and XLR ground (isolated from the chasis).

Thanks,

[skyboltone]

Mat: I guess the only thing missing is the obvious absence of the returns or "switch legs" back from the foot switch. It's a bit unclear too, just how you'll wire the capacitor. It will need to live between the + and - lines of the rectifier. Which heater winding are you using? If your transformer has a 5 volt winding for a rectifier tube you'll get 7 volts from a bridge rectifier and a capacitor entrance filter. If you use the 6.3 volt windings as shown you'll get 8.82 VDC. Neither voltage would be ideal for five volt relays. A voltage doubler on 6.3 volts gets you 15 volts.

Mouser has Magnecraft relays with 6VDC coils in both DPDT and 4PDT form factors. These will work fine at the 7 VDC you are planning. One problem is that the relay will pull down a whopping 170MA (each relay)with a 40 OHM coil. Just run the numbers on all filaments and make sure that the windings can handle the extra load. They probably can; most likely being in the neighborhood of 6.5 Amps.

Another plan would be to use a 6 Volt AC relay (Mouser 655-k10p-11a15-6) Tyco P&B general purpose. These use two watts of power. (333MA) but would eliminate the rectifier supply and be pretty easy to wire up. Just remember that the outlet receptacle and plug as well as the switch housing must all remain isolated from the chassis. That is true of either the DC or AC relays fed from the main transformer. You may be better off just buying a purpose dedicated transformer with all those relays.

Good luck
Hope all this helps
Dan

[mat]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for answering !

I guess the only thing missing is the obvious absence of the returns or "switch legs" back from the foot switch.

Im trying to figure out that myself but these switches seems to be very hard to understand for me

It's a bit unclear too, just how you'll wire the capacitor.

I have one amp (built from amp kit) and I tried to imitate the switching from there but can't figure it out exactly. That amp has the cap from the diodebridges ground to the output leg and it works wonderfully.

It will need to live between the + and - lines of the rectifier.

Ah, ok see above.

Which heater winding are you using?

It is the normal 6.3VAC (if I understand the guestion).

If your transformer has a 5 volt winding for a rectifier tube you'll get 7 volts from a bridge rectifier and a capacitor entrance filter. If you use the 6.3 volt windings as shown you'll get 8.82 VDC. Neither voltage would be ideal for five volt relays. A voltage doubler on 6.3 volts gets you 15 volts.

Should I put a small (50R 2W) resistor between the diode bridge and the 5V regulator( TO-220 boxed) ? (
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.co.kr/datashee ... 805CV.html )

Mouser has Magnecraft relays with 6VDC coils in both DPDT and 4PDT form factors. These will work fine at the 7 VDC you are planning.

I already bought four of these RY5W-K (165R coil resistance): http://www.fcai.fujitsu.com/pdf/ry.pdf

One problem is that the relay will pull down a whopping 170MA (each relay)with a 40 OHM coil. Just run the numbers on all filaments and make sure that the windings can handle the extra load. They probably can; most likely being in the neighborhood of 6.5 Amps.

Ok.

Just remember that the outlet receptacle and plug as well as the switch housing must all remain isolated from the chassis. That is true of either the DC or AC relays fed from the main transformer.

Ok, I'm going to use only the 5 pins of the female (chasis) and male (foot switch box) XLR's. I leave the ground pin unused.

You may be better off just buying a purpose dedicated transformer with all those relays.

I'll have to think about that if the current setup does not work.

I'm going to power the leds with 9V battery.

Also I could use a little help with those A, B, C, D, h pins versus 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 pins - how should they be wired ? And how the relays and the onpanel dpdt's connect ? (the picture above is updated)

I'm also willing to leave the bright switch off if it makes the switching better.

Good luck
Hope all this helps
Dan

Much appreciated. Thanks,

[skyboltone]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for answering !

Im trying to figure out that myself but these switches seems to be very hard to understand for me

Nothing could be simpler. If I can figure out one of these drawing programs I'll make you a drawing. Otherwise, I'll sketch it out, scan it in, and send it as a jpeg.

Should I put a small (50R 2W) resistor between the diode bridge and the 5V regulator( TO-220 boxed) ? (
http://pdf1.alldatasheet.co.kr/datashee ... 805CV.html )

Absolutely not. That's what a voltage regulator is for. But the 3 volts dropped (7805) end up as heat. There is no free lunch. They do a better job of dropping voltages because the output remains the same regarless of load. Read the application notes. you'll need a .01uF and a .33uF cap to improve transient response. that's all.




I already bought four of these RY5W-K (165R coil resistance): http://www.fcai.fujitsu.com/pdf/ry.pdf

Send them back and get relays with AC coils, you'll end up happier in the long run. My opinion, rather than horsing around with voltage regulation. In any case, build this thing up on a separate experimental board and power it up. see how much all those relays and the regulator draw. It's the only way you'll know in the end how much power you'll loose as heat.

Ok.

Just remember that the outlet receptacle and plug as well as the switch housing must all remain isolated from the chassis. That is true of either the DC or AC relays fed from the main transformer.

Ok, I'm going to use only the 5 pins of the female (chasis) and male (foot switch box) XLR's. I leave the ground pin unused.

You may be better off just buying a purpose dedicated transformer with all those relays.

I'll have to think about that if the current setup does not work.

I'm going to power the leds with 9V battery.

Also I could use a little help with those A, B, C, D, h pins versus 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 pins - how should they be wired ? And how the relays and the onpanel dpdt's connect ? (the picture above is updated)

I'm also willing to leave the bright switch off if it makes the switching better.

Good luck
Hope all this helps
Dan

Much appreciated. Thanks,

[mat]

Hello Dan,

Nothing could be simpler. If I can figure out one of these drawing programs I'll make you a drawing. Otherwise, I'll sketch it out, scan it in, and send it as a jpeg.

Wow! Thanks alot ! If it is not too much trouble, could You explain with couple of words about the wiring, I mean so I could learn something also

Should I put a small (50R 2W) resistor...

Absolutely not. That's what a voltage regulator is for. But the 3 volts dropped (7805) end up as heat. There is no free lunch. They do a better job of dropping voltages because the output remains the same regarless of load. Read the application notes.

I bolt it on the chasis for the heat to go away.

you'll need a .01uF and a .33uF cap to improve transient response. that's all.

What is transient response ? Would it have to do something with the relay working better ? I'll study the datasheet..

I already bought four of these RY5W-K (165R coil resistance): http://www.fcai.fujitsu.com/pdf/ry.pdf

Send them back and get relays with AC coils, you'll end up happier in the long run. My opinion, rather than horsing around with voltage regulation. In any case, build this thing up on a separate experimental board and power it up. see how much all those relays and the regulator draw. It's the only way you'll know in the end how much power you'll loose as heat.

I know You are right but I have all the parts I need for this and I cannot send them back, so I would like to try this with two relays on a seperate board, and I'm going to use an isolated stereojack:

[img1025]http://www.pichotel.com/pic/16028B31e/46513.jpg[/img]

(If You use windows, the MS Paint is very esy to draw simple things)

You can also just tell the connections between a-h and 1-16 if You like..

Big Thanks,

[skyboltone]

[IMG1025]http://i6.tinypic.com/16m3pe1.jpg[/img]





I think you may still need the current limiting resistor on the led feed. this way when the coil pulls the relay in, the light goes on. Now, each of the relays has six tabs or connection points. Notice that these are layed out just like the back of your panel switches. So run a small wire from each panel switch connection to the same position on the back of the relay.

I guess first make sure that if the "wiper" or moving arm on the switch is in the center of the three tabs on each side that it is the same at the relay. In other words hook up the wipers of the switches to the wipers of the relays, the top connection of the switch to the top connection of the relay and ditto the bottom.

I think you'll be good to go.

Dan

[mat]

Hello again Dan,

Thanks for the picture and further info !

Am I anywhere near on this one:

[img1025]http://www.pichotel.com/pic/16028B31e/46586.jpg[/img]

I started to make the relayboard and will finish it hopefully tomorrow.

So I dont need 3pdt's footswitches, will spdt be enough ?

Is the footpedal choosed automaticly when plugging in ?

Thanks again,

[skyboltone]

Mat:
Man o Man, I didn't realize you had three pole switches in the pedal, and I didnt recognize what you had drawn there was the pedal. Crap! Your nine volt scheme makes more sense. The nine volt battery lives in the pedal with the led's and switches etc. Right? I thought those green blocks were some sort of therminal block and the led's were on the panel.

Let me think about this and have a pot of coffee, then we'll go back to the nine volt scheme and you'll have a good system.

Sorry; yes keep the three pole switches.

Dan

[mat]

Let me think about this and have a pot of coffee, then we'll go back to the nine volt scheme and you'll have a good system.

Ok

I bolted the diodebridge and regulator on the chasis. Also soldered sockets + wires for the relays. DAMN! When I tried the relay on the socket (before soldering) and pulled it away and while it was really tight it loosened suddenly and the socket legs went all the way into my index finger... the amount of the blood Man I'm not playing the guitar for a while.. Well, I can still use the soldering iron

cheer,

[skyboltone]

[IMG1025]http://i6.tinypic.com/1z2g02t.jpg[/img]


Remember that lot's of guys are getting into trouble with that regulator ground, so make sure it gets back to the bridge negative. Everything is cool on the relay wiring. You don't need to put the little jumper on the back of the relay because it's already there on the back of the ODS switch. BUT DON'T WORRY, IT WON'T HURT. That goofy looking symbol between the 2.2k resistor and the switches in the LED circuit is the battery.

This should work very well. Draw it again if you want so we can see if you got it.

Again, sorry for the misque. I had failed to accurately identify the components.

Dan

[Bob-I]

I bolted the diodebridge and regulator on the chasis. Also soldered sockets + wires for the relays. DAMN! When I tried the relay on the socket (before soldering) and pulled it away and while it was really tight it loosened suddenly and the socket legs went all the way into my index finger... the amount of the blood Man I'm not playing the guitar for a while.. Well, I can still use the soldering iron

cheer,

I hate when that happens. Fortunately these little holes tend to heal quickly.

[mat]

Hi,

This should work very well. Draw it again if you want so we can see if you got it.

Again, sorry for the misque. I had failed to accurately identify the components.

No need to be sorry, I could have named the parts I draw

I build this and report back.

Btw. is the panelswitches selected when unplugging the footpedalcord from the chasis ?

Thanks,

[skyboltone]

Btw. is the panelswitches selected when unplugging the footpedalcord from the chasis ?

Thanks,

They work in parallel. When you are using the pedal turn them off. When you use the amp without the pedal they still work as intended. Either/or they both work.

Dan

[Bob-I]

is the panelswitches selected when unplugging the footpedalcord from the chasis ?

Thanks,

If that's what you want you can use a stereo switching jack instead of the DIN connector. That's how I wire it up and it works great. Let me know if you need to see the schematic, I'll draw it up.

[mat]

Btw. is the panelswitches selected when unplugging the footpedalcord from the chasis ?

Thanks,

They work in parallel. When you are using the pedal turn them off. When you use the amp without the pedal they still work as intended. Either/or they both work.

Dan

Ok, Thanks,

...still few wires to be soldered...