4-4-0 [2 NEW BUILDS WITH PICS; THE 2 WATT WRECK]

[cliffchappell]

So now, how would you compare the Wreckless (soundwise) to the Studio? (clips pleeeze...?)

Well, I'm not Brian, but...

October Studio clean:
http://www.chappellamps.com/amplifiers/ ... rd_etc.mp3

Full on brown sound:
http://www.chappellamps.com/amplifiers/ ... t_vh01.mp3

Thanks to Jon Anderson for the clips.

I will be on the lookout for your schematics...

I'm still fussing around with a couple of areas on the Wreck. To my ear, there is still just a bit of rattiness when the amp is cranked to 11. We had the same problem with the October Studio and it wound up being that there was a bit too much signal hitting the grids.

Where do you go from here for your next project?
Mss

I've no idea.

[GainMaster]

Brian, it sounds terrific. Any idea what guitar and speaker were used?

Is it just me or is there a particular bell-like chimey sound to all 6SN7 amps, like in your clean samples?

I get a somewhat similar sound from the uTube build at clean volumes, but the driven sound is no where near as smooth.

So now, how would you compare the Wreckless (soundwise) to the Studio? (clips pleeeze...?)

I expect to pick up a messed up Blues Jr in a couple of weeks, that should make a decent donor platform for building something like this. Now I am really chomping at the bit.

I will be on the lookout for your schematics...

Where do you go from here for your next project?

Mss

Asked during lunch and he was using a Mesa 112 cab and a Paul Reed Smith Custom 22 .

Brian

[tejastubes]

[For those of you that are new to this thread, I'm in the process of building a 2 watt PP Wreck using a 6SN7 for the output section. Cliff Chappell is building a parallel build so it will be interesting to compare notes before the final schematic is posted. I'm also working on a new way to apply lettering to faceplates by printing the letters on wood veneer. The initial test was promising. The amp should be up and running by the end of the 4th of July weekend. Thanks for the interest

I added the clip to the first page so you could find it easier.]

I'm on the verge of starting a new build. It will be a Wreck preamp mated to a 2 watt PP output section using a 6sn7gtb. The head cab is finished and I was thinking about putting a logo on it. I was thinking about calling it a WreckLess since it will be a Wreck less 30 watts. Will putting a WreckLess logo on my head cab cause me any copyright or pattent infringement problems if I am only building one amp for myself?

Thanks
Brian

Brian,

If you need any ideas on the 6SN7 I have hundreds and have done alot of rolling of this tube hifi equipment.

Joshua

[GainMaster]

[For those of you that are new to this thread, I'm in the process of building a 2 watt PP Wreck using a 6SN7 for the output section. Cliff Chappell is building a parallel build so it will be interesting to compare notes before the final schematic is posted. I'm also working on a new way to apply lettering to faceplates by printing the letters on wood veneer. The initial test was promising. The amp should be up and running by the end of the 4th of July weekend. Thanks for the interest

I added the clip to the first page so you could find it easier.]

I'm on the verge of starting a new build. It will be a Wreck preamp mated to a 2 watt PP output section using a 6sn7gtb. The head cab is finished and I was thinking about putting a logo on it. I was thinking about calling it a WreckLess since it will be a Wreck less 30 watts. Will putting a WreckLess logo on my head cab cause me any copyright or pattent infringement problems if I am only building one amp for myself?

Thanks
Brian

Brian,

If you need any ideas on the 6SN7 I have hundreds and have done alot of rolling of this tube hifi equipment.

Joshua

Thanks for the offer. We pretty much have this build wrapped up. Just a few minor tweaks before releasing a schematic.

Brian

[Krank]

[For those of you that are new to this thread, I'm in the process of building a 2 watt PP Wreck using a 6SN7 for the output section. Cliff Chappell is building a parallel build so it will be interesting to compare notes before the final schematic is posted. I'm also working on a new way to apply lettering to faceplates by printing the letters on wood veneer. The initial test was promising. The amp should be up and running by the end of the 4th of July weekend. Thanks for the interest

I added the clip to the first page so you could find it easier.]

I'm on the verge of starting a new build. It will be a Wreck preamp mated to a 2 watt PP output section using a 6sn7gtb. The head cab is finished and I was thinking about putting a logo on it. I was thinking about calling it a WreckLess since it will be a Wreck less 30 watts. Will putting a WreckLess logo on my head cab cause me any copyright or pattent infringement problems if I am only building one amp for myself?

Thanks
Brian

Brian,

If you need any ideas on the 6SN7 I have hundreds and have done alot of rolling of this tube hifi equipment.

Joshua

Thanks for the offer. We pretty much have this build wrapped up. Just a few minor tweaks before releasing a schematic.

Brian

With the schematic will there be a layout? What about for us not so savy can you post a buy list? four 50 watters, a Train wreck soon to be born once I get the last few pieces this week. But I need something that can get that nice gain at human like volumes. This amp sounds like the winner.

[GainMaster]

With the schematic will there be a layout? What about for us not so savy can you post a buy list? four 50 watters, a Train wreck soon to be born once I get the last few pieces this week. But I need something that can get that nice gain at human like volumes. This amp sounds like the winner.

Cliff always does a parts list and detailed layout drawing with the schematic. There will even be a drill guide you can print full size and tape to your chassis. It should be available in the next couple of weeks.

Brian

[cliffchappell]

[For those of you that are new to this thread, I'm in the process of building a 2 watt PP Wreck using a 6SN7 for the output section. Cliff Chappell is building a parallel build so it will be interesting to compare notes before the final schematic is posted. I'm also working on a new way to apply lettering to faceplates by printing the letters on wood veneer. The initial test was promising. The amp should be up and running by the end of the 4th of July weekend. Thanks for the interest

I added the clip to the first page so you could find it easier.]

I'm on the verge of starting a new build. It will be a Wreck preamp mated to a 2 watt PP output section using a 6sn7gtb. The head cab is finished and I was thinking about putting a logo on it. I was thinking about calling it a WreckLess since it will be a Wreck less 30 watts. Will putting a WreckLess logo on my head cab cause me any copyright or pattent infringement problems if I am only building one amp for myself?

Thanks
Brian

Brian,

If you need any ideas on the 6SN7 I have hundreds and have done alot of rolling of this tube hifi equipment.

Joshua

Hey Joshua,

You play guitar, right? Well... we just happen to live about a mile from each other.

If you'd like to play some of these amps, I happen to have a couple.

[mss1]

Thanks Cliff and Brian,

The clips are great and as anticipated, both certainly have their distinct characters! That settles it, there is no question of choosing, I want both...

I am more than happy to wait for the "final" (is there such a thing?) tweaks to get an even smoother thing happening.

I probably have all the parts to go modular, with a complete wreckless and a seperate Studio pre-amp to switch into it. (slight drool forming, as his head spins...). Do you think an external pre will be a problem for noise or hum?

Cliff: which brands of tubes were used for the Studio clips?

Isn't progress great?

Mss1

[GainMaster]

Thanks Cliff and Brian,

The clips are great and as anticipated, both certainly have their distinct characters! That settles it, there is no question of choosing, I want both...

I am more than happy to wait for the "final" (is there such a thing?) tweaks to get an even smoother thing happening.

I probably have all the parts to go modular, with a complete wreckless and a seperate Studio pre-amp to switch into it. (slight drool forming, as his head spins...). Do you think an external pre will be a problem for noise or hum?

Cliff: which brands of tubes were used for the Studio clips?

Isn't progress great?

Mss1

Not Cliff but, Cliff likes the NOS RCA 6SN7GTB in is October~Studio and I believe that is what was used in the recording. My Wreck~Studio and Cliff's are using the Tung Sol tall bottle 6SN7GTB. Much better top end than the RCA.

When I built my October, I was going to sell it after I built the Wreck. Now I have to have both too. If you add the Firezog line out mod to the Studio series of amps, you can run the signal straight into the input of another amp. Then you would have a couple of great practice amps that could be hooked into a bigger head for giging. Through in an A/B switch and you have channel switching. Anyway, that is what I am going for.

Brian

[cliffchappell]

Thanks Cliff and Brian,

The clips are great and as anticipated, both certainly have their distinct characters! That settles it, there is no question of choosing, I want both...

Join the club. It's only got two members right now, but...

I am more than happy to wait for the "final" (is there such a thing?) tweaks to get an even smoother thing happening.

I've just been trying to get the PS dropping resistors right so that the plates of the 6SN7GTB are at about 340V which Jon and I found we liked the best in the October Studio R&D units , and trying to get the PI and preamp stages where the wreck should be. I think I'm just about there. I'm going to try a 1K as the first dropping resistor, and that should just about do it. I'll also be increasing the post PI dividers a bit as I think the output tube is still getting driven a bit hard.

After that we'll just have to wait until a few more or built for some sort of concensus to happen as to any further "refinements" that need to happen.

Maybe I can talk Glen into a free test drive if he's interested.

I probably have all the parts to go modular, with a complete wreckless and a seperate Studio pre-amp to switch into it. (slight drool forming, as his head spins...). Do you think an external pre will be a problem for noise or hum?

I'm a quiet freak. I do everything I can to minimize buzz and hum on these amps. You can put up with a higher noise floor in a bigger amps, but not these. My intuition tell me that you will get more noise, but personal experience tells me that everyone has a different idea of what "too noisey" is.

Cliff: which brands of tubes were used for the Studio clips?

Isn't progress great?

Mss1

From Jon:

I had 1 tall and 1 short Raytheon 6SN7GTB, one is silver topped, the other is black. They are both used, rather than NOS. For the preamp tubes, I've been using 2 Baldwin branded Sylvania 12ax7's, and 1 Hammond (RCA, I think) as the PI. Really, just a hodge-podge.

As for me, I use Mullard's in the preamp and PI, and a RCA blackplate for the powertube. Very creamy. Nails the bluesbreaker tone when coupled with an Alinco Blue or Gold. Swapping in Brian's favorites (the Sylvania or Tung-Sol triangle plate tubes) give it a more agressive character in the upper mids and high freqs making it sound like a bit later Marshall. Brian likes the clarity and chimeyness of those tubes better than the RCA, but that's because he hasn't spent the money on a Alinco yet.

In the Wrecked Studio, it's the NOS Tung-Sol 6SN7GYB hands down. I don't have a Sylvania yet, so I don't have an opnion about it. I'm using Mullard's in the pre and PI of that amp as well. Someone is supposed to be sending me a few BB's and Tungsram's to test out though.

But everyone is different, so YMMV.

And I almost forgot to mention, the October studio sound quite acceptable with current production JJ's in the preamp and PI and the new Tung-sol 6SN7GTB's. That's what I ship in my kits.

[mss1]

Not brian or Cliff but; I think I get it now. It's like any other build.

Just keep buying nos tubes as fast as we can find them and roll your own... Then swap speakers and start rolling tubes again, then swap guitars (and a pickup or two) and roll again. Tweak a little, get totally confused and repeat the process until we find a sound that we are looking for.

I have a 15" eminence redcoat, a 12L electrovoice and a G10S-50 10" Celestion (in an iso-box) that span the complete range from mid-bassy to quite bright, so each tube and speaker match up will have a very different sound.

Sounds like a fun excercise.

As studio amps, it is real important they be as quiet as possible, particularly on the HERZOG output. I have traditionally been mostly a p-t-p guy so this will be a challenge. Like in a lot of pretty quiet hi-end p-t-p hi-fi amps in the old days, the layout will be key. (I was surprised that my p-t-p Wreck turned out pretty quiet, considering the experiences of others...)

M

[GainMaster]

Not brian or Cliff but; I think I get it now. It's like any other build.

Just keep buying nos tubes as fast as we can find them and roll your own... Then swap speakers and start rolling tubes again, then swap guitars (and a pickup or two) and roll again. Tweak a little, get totally confused and repeat the process until we find a sound that we are looking for.

I have a 15" eminence redcoat, a 12L electrovoice and a G10S-50 10" Celestion (in an iso-box) that span the complete range from mid-bassy to quite bright, so each tube and speaker match up will have a very different sound.

Sounds like a fun excercise.

As studio amps, it is real important they be as quiet as possible, particularly on the HERZOG output. I have traditionally been mostly a p-t-p guy so this will be a challenge. Like in a lot of pretty quiet hi-end p-t-p hi-fi amps in the old days, the layout will be key. (I was surprised that my p-t-p Wreck turned out pretty quiet, considering the experiences of others...)

M

I have been buying my turret boards for these builds from Cliff because I don't have the stuff to do it myself yet. But he always puts a layout for the boards in his schematic so you can roll your own. I followed Cliff's layout for the October and WreckLess and found them to be very good and squeal free at startup. You shouldn't have any problems there.

Brian

[mss1]

Brian, I would love to use a turret board but...

I will be starting the Studio-Wreck in a donor Blues Jr. chassis, so the standard turret board will not match up well with the physical layout of the components. I will have to go with old-school p-t-p and keep the wire lengths the shortest possible.

I suspect the Blues Jr power transformer will be something like 25v lower on the B+. Do you think this could be an issue, even after tweaking the pre-amp voltages to the highest I can get them?

[GainMaster]

Brian, I would love to use a turret board but...

I will be starting the Studio-Wreck in a donor Blues Jr. chassis, so the standard turret board will not match up well with the physical layout of the components. I will have to go with old-school p-t-p and keep the wire lengths the shortest possible.

I suspect the Blues Jr power transformer will be something like 25v lower on the B+. Do you think this could be an issue, even after tweaking the pre-amp voltages to the highest I can get them?

I see... You want about 340v on the 6sn7 to sound best. Lower will lower the clean headroom some. Not that it has much now. I suspect the lower current draw of the 6sn7 will bump your B+ up some. You can also lower the first dropping resistor. Wouldn't go too much below 400R though. You will never know till you try.

Brian

[mss1]

re:

I found the Firezog output killed off quite a bit of the dynamics and range with my Firefly.

I will be interesting to hear how you make out runing the Wreckless firezog output into your Wreck.

With the FF firezog into my Wreck (other than on really low gain) it was outrageously out of control (Waa-hoo!) and somewhat noisy as would be expected considering the sensitivity of the Wreck input...