Are carbon films worth the trouble?

[bepone]

yea, change of the sound tonally and totally is because of the noise!

guys if you didnt know, there is one important fact, signal / noise ratio is built in V1, first valve..V1a it critical and elements around for the noise.. and after V1b signal is soooooooooooo big..there is no more noise created from the parts, it is neglible compared with the noise contribution from first valve.. after V1a and V1b it is already so huge that all other part doesnt matter is is all noisy CC, amp will be quiet.

so after V1a) there is only gastronomy, cooking best sauce what you can do, with materials, CC, CF, MOX, MF, MKts, MKPs..with the help of crucial grid stoppers and output transformer ....but everybody should know this in this discussion already

[WhopperPlate]

yea, change of the sound tonally and totally is because of the noise!

guys if you didnt know, there is one important fact, signal / noise ratio is built in V1, first valve..V1a it critical and elements around for the noise.. and after V1b signal is soooooooooooo big..there is no more noise created from the parts, it is neglible compared with the noise contribution from first valve.. after V1a and V1b it is already so huge that all other part doesnt matter is is all noisy CC, amp will be quiet.

so after V1a) there is only gastronomy, cooking best sauce what you can do, with materials, CC, CF, MOX, MF, MKts, MKPs..with the help of crucial grid stoppers and output transformer ....but everybody should know this in this discussion already

But but but … …

one man’s negligible is another man’s treasure …or something like that lol

[Reeltarded]

AAAACK! THE BINDERS!!??!! Who knows what the Golden Age binders were

Would be funny if it were metal oxides.

[martin manning]

Unless the question of whether you and/or anyone else who participates in it can first demonstrate the ability to tell by hearing alone
1- whether a change has happened or not
2- whether it's better or worse in their opinion if they think something changed, let alone whether #17 is better than #5
Edit: 2A - and whether #8 is better or worse or no change on unknown repeats of that part
3- with an accuracy much better than random guessing
then auditioning subbed-in parts doesn't tell you much, if anything.

This is where I'm at. Given the propensity of the human psycho-acoustic system to enhance the information appearing at the eardrums, I'm yet to be convinced without a rigorous test such as this.

[WhopperPlate]

Unless the question of whether you and/or anyone else who participates in it can first demonstrate the ability to tell by hearing alone
1- whether a change has happened or not
2- whether it's better or worse in their opinion if they think something changed, let alone whether #17 is better than #5
Edit: 2A - and whether #8 is better or worse or no change on unknown repeats of that part
3- with an accuracy much better than random guessing
then auditioning subbed-in parts doesn't tell you much, if anything.

This is where I'm at. Given the propensity of the human psycho-acoustic system to enhance the information appearing at the eardrums, I'm yet to be convinced without a rigorous test such as this.

I am happy to volunteer myself for those studies

I am also happy to be trust my own ears when I swap identical value resistors and prefer one over the other, and I subsequently enjoy myself more and play with more inspiration . Obviously this sort of statement doesn’t prove itself , but it’s a dynamic of tone that ultimately can’t simply be ignored within the entire equation, and truly the one that arguably matters the most .

I think of it all this way : if I could build an amplifier and make it sound exactly the way I want utilizing nothing but the most reliable bulletproof and industry approved components I would without batting an eye .

If that was solid state footprint amp I would be in heaven . Before I built my own amps I tried everything I could to avoid tube amplifiers . I wanted reliability and consistency, something I could not get with the tube amps that I had available. Tone was the trade off .

By initially following the technical advice touted by most techs and engineers I tried this approach most of my youth. Building amplifiers specifically to achieve the sound I wanted to hear when I performed and recorded music , this method never yielded what I wanted .

Only when I began actually looking inside of the amplifiers I liked, and stopped reading just schematics and just buying only from places like CEDIST did I finally start hearing what I wanted to hear . Based on many people’s convictions this is purely psychoacoustic in nature. Whereas I can’t pretend to detail and quantify every technical reason for every choice, I can measure the results when playing fairly easy.

If it feels and sounds inadequate I get tired . Lazy. Over it . Bored. Grumpy .

It’s simple . If it’s nice I feel invigorated and play for hours on end . It’s like coffee. Dopamine surges . Happy.

Fwiw Still haven’t gotten that feeling from an amplifier built by modern manufacturers .

[R.G.]

Fwiw the Koa and yageo I referenced are CF , not cc

Ooops. Sorry.
I was still in the groove of the resistor-noise from the earlier post. You did in fact say CF, and I misread it. The rant may have been plausible, but was aimed at the wrong target entirely.

[WhopperPlate]

Fwiw the Koa and yageo I referenced are CF , not cc

Ooops. Sorry.
I was still in the groove of the resistor-noise from the earlier post. You did in fact say CF, and I misread it. The rant may have been plausible, but was aimed at the wrong target entirely.

I love your rants thank you

[martin manning]

I am happy to volunteer myself for those studies

Me too, but that's the easy part. Somebody has to have enough interest in proving that their position is correct to spend the time and money to make it happen.

[WhopperPlate]

I am happy to volunteer myself for those studies

Me too, but that's the easy part. Somebody has to have enough interest in proving that their position is correct to spend the time and money to make it happen.

With enough passion . Where there’s a Will …

[dorrisant]

What could we settle up on as a test bed? Or could we even begin to settle. I have a suggestion if anyone is interested.

[WhopperPlate]

What could we settle up on as a test bed? Or could we even veg n to settle. I have a suggestion to f anyone is interested.

I have a large stash of all the in production resistors. If I had a competent partner in crime with a properly designed test rig I could easily do something worthwhile .

Since everyone has the intention to be as scientific and objective as possible , perhaps we can collect a list of parameters and considerations to completely eliminate any potential for scrutiny, and one, some or all of us can execute it in time properly.

I meant it when I said intend to do something eventually when I get back into town .

[dragonbat13]

Wow! Been a few days since I checked my thread.

I'll have to find some time to read through it all.

Thanks for all the info AND opinions. I'm an open minded fellow. I consider everyone's input.

If anyone cares, I decided to go with two watt Vishay Drailect PR0 resistors through our. I read where they were a smoother sounding of the metal films.

Using Mallory 150 polyester throughout also.

F&T elect. Power supply. And some Sprague thrown in.

I figure building it like this would make a good starting point, and if I want to try a few things I can. I'm still planning on messing with plate resistors, screen resistors, and tone stack resistors and caps. Seems that I read a lot where the marshall cathode follower tone stack gets the most from different types of resistors. And the plates of the last stages. I'll keep the first stage metal film. I would rather the noise reduction in the first stage with the metal film with the high gain topology.

[WhopperPlate]

F&T elect. Power supply. And some Sprague thrown in.

I know I have said it already , but here’s some advice to ignore :

If you ever feel like things kinda just feel a bit thin and bright…I’ll betcha if you swap out the f&t you will be happier …I shared this story earlier in the thread about them in a Marshall super lead type amplifier:

Recently a great guitar player friend of mine was showing off his custom made amp by blah blah amplification , and I heard a harshness in the video clips . Sounded like what I hear in f&t caps . I told him so and he confirmed that that’s what was in the amp . He agreed it was harsh and asked me to change them . Happy customer . Call it confirmation bias if you must. Call it psychological. I just think it sounds better now and want to keep the amp now it sounds as good as it does . I wouldn’t have before…”

[bepone]

I think of it all this way : if I could build an amplifier and make it sound exactly the way I want utilizing nothing but the most reliable bulletproof and industry approved components I would without batting an eye .

If that was solid state footprint amp I would be in heaven . Before I built my own amps I tried everything I could to avoid tube amplifiers . I wanted reliability and consistency, something I could not get with the tube amps that I had available. Tone was the trade off .

you can try to do one nice experiment...cheap.. build your favorite preamp (JCM800? ) and send the output after master volume to the 100W CLASS D output power module,
you can find them cheaply from ebay (LJM LJM)
You will be surprised about the tone, which is between Valve and Solid state (has warmth + light compression+dynamic from the valves, and speaker control from the solid state!) also there is no ugly clipping like solid state amp!

[bepone]

What could we settle up on as a test bed? Or could we even begin to settle. I have a suggestion if anyone is interested.

the best is to trigger cumulative effect...some amp with a distortion, change first valve V1 and PI anode resistors, 4 resistors material change in a test (100k ohms)
1. CF vintage type Piher (dark)
2. CF modern type Koa Speer 0.5W (sparkling)
3. MF Dale (normal)
4. MOX NTE (?), i can confirm that Eu MOX like Vitrohm working satisfactory

looper in a amp input, voltage stable and the same, recorder without compression, Iphone is ok, and that it, everybody in the room must hear the same because changes are not small..