How can I get my ODS to be more "on the edge of out of control"?

[norburybrook]

every track on here was recorded with a telecaster of some kind and my #102.



https://www.marcuscliffe.com/music


if you listen at 2:46 on track 6 I put a spell on you, you can hear the amp starting to take off






M

[martin manning]

You could try disabling the local FB on V1, which will roughen it ip a bit, but I'm not sure that is what you're after. AFAIR, and from Tony's description, any definitive cause behind the "feedback city" amp behavior remains a mystery, so there is no recipe for that.

[JD0x0]

IMO there's many factors, but one of the big ones seems to be having enough mids dialed in. More mids tends to increase the frequencies where most guitar's resonant frequencies sit. This helps get the feedback-y flippy quality as the guitar will want to feedback more with those frequencies pushed. I've found my Lab Series L5 preamp does it really well because it has an active parametric EQ, so you can dial in the resonant frequency, then jack it way up. Of course there's many other factors. I have some amps that'll do it at nearly 'clean' gain levels. https://www.dropbox.com/s/4zmb9s324ksz9 ... 1.mp4?dl=0

Well tuned amps, such as the Bludos seem to be able to do it at bedroom type levels, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41c6ItoPi8g

[jcsifu]

If curious about Country style tunes and #102, you may want to give Daniel Donato's latest album a listen. It's called A Young Man's Country. It was produced by Robben Ford and looks like #102 was used on many tracks. He calls his style Cosmic Country, Grateful Dead meets chicken pickin.

He posted some instagram clips while in the studio:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCpRnojlFlA ... s0j6f5efse

https://www.instagram.com/p/B54Afqkl8k5 ... pho0lkk3qy

Can't see the amp in this clip, but I think it is the same setup
https://www.instagram.com/p/B56gPbbFlDo ... h3sglyo4oe

A more bluesy bit
https://www.instagram.com/p/B59VU4WlroW ... ct7koa2buz

-Dan

How exciting that must have been.

[jcsifu]

Wow That was a while ago I think that was my 339 but don't hold me to it.
BTW. I too am not a fan of all RF tones either but that one has always resonated with me..Such a Phat sounding Tele

T

Agree on the Phat-ness! I only have one tele I keep around for the inevitable country gig I get once or twice a year. Everyone so far has wanted me to pair it with a 66 deluxe reverb I have. It is a nice rig, and after a week with it I'm good to go for whatever they want. I've never thought to put it into the 102 inspired amp. This might be fun! I'm going to wait until next weekend to try it, only because I want to get some push on it and we have family visiting and was told not to disappear with a guitar in hand this time. Fair enough as I had Friday and Saturday gigs the last couple of times they stayed with us. Less of an issue with Covid cutting down on live gigs. But hey...if you don't go, people stop calling...fact of life. An ongoing issue with us.

A Tele and an old Deluxe Reverb is your classic country/Rock kind of sound to me great for that type of thing especially if you can saturate the 6V's. A Tele through the OD of a 102 reminds me more of an old Tweed Deluxe style amp cranked up. A bit fatter and not as much twang, more refined with a tighter low end..Both are completely legit tones. I am not really a "Country" picker but love the sound of a Phat Tele (Like through an old tweed). This is just what my ears tell me you are on your own from here..Good Luck!!

Tony

Fair enough. Thank you for the conversation.

[jcsifu]

every track on here was recorded with a telecaster of some kind and my #102.



https://www.marcuscliffe.com/music


if you listen at 2:46 on track 6 I put a spell on you, you can hear the amp starting to take off






M

I like the arrangement and mix. What mics did you use? Great tone, I would have guessed it was a semi-hollow at first listen. I'm looking forward to trying out a teli for myself now. Maybe that will get me out of my boredom with myself.

[jcsifu]

You could try disabling the local FB on V1, which will roughen it ip a bit, but I'm not sure that is what you're after. AFAIR, and from Tony's description, any definitive cause behind the "feedback city" amp behavior remains a mystery, so there is no recipe for that.

Already have a switch on V1. I think that lowering filters is what might be the feel I'm looking for. Have you ever experimented with that, if so how low have you gone before?

[jcsifu]

IMO there's many factors, but one of the big ones seems to be having enough mids dialed in. More mids tends to increase the frequencies where most guitar's resonant frequencies sit. This helps get the feedback-y flippy quality as the guitar will want to feedback more with those frequencies pushed. I've found my Lab Series L5 preamp does it really well because it has an active parametric EQ, so you can dial in the resonant frequency, then jack it way up. Of course there's many other factors. I have some amps that'll do it at nearly 'clean' gain levels. https://www.dropbox.com/45a85669-8008-4 ... e1a1ee8f0c

Well tuned amps, such as the Bludos seem to be able to do it at bedroom type levels, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41c6ItoPi8g

I can't seem to access the drop box link you posted but would like to. Just curious, what mid frequency do you boost on the Lab Series? Did you do a kit or did you buy one of the limited number of complete pedals?

[martin manning]

I think that lowering filters is what might be the feel I'm looking for. Have you ever experimented with that, if so how low have you gone before?

No, I haven’t. Have you tried reducing the global feedback, such as increasing the feedback resistor or increasing the presence cap?

[jcsifu]

I think that lowering filters is what might be the feel I'm looking for. Have you ever experimented with that, if so how low have you gone before?

No, I haven’t. Have you tried reducing the global feedback, such as increasing the feedback resistor or increasing the presence cap?

I have not. I have a "raw" labeled pot on the back of my super reverb that was there when I got it. That pot increases the resistance of the GF. What value would you suggest trying in the 102? What do you think would happen if I go too low with the filter caps? Just noisey? Mushy bottom end?

[talbany]

I think that lowering filters is what might be the feel I'm looking for. Have you ever experimented with that, if so how low have you gone before?

No, I haven’t. Have you tried reducing the global feedback, such as increasing the feedback resistor or increasing the presence cap?

I have not. I have a "raw" labeled pot on the back of my super reverb that was there when I got it. That pot increases the resistance of the GF. What value would you suggest trying in the 102? What do you think would happen if I go too low with the filter caps? Just noisey? Mushy bottom end?

AFAIR The Feedback City amp had 100uF on the plates 20uF on the remaining nodes, no NFB on V1 and the standard 102 Presence circuit with 2.2 uF cap. Using some basic testing methods I concluded the feedback was generated mostly in the output section, although I am sure the resonant frequency or onset was generated in V1 (and the tonestack) so IMO one caused the other. The OD and boost just made it more intense!...Don't ask me how?

BTW. I could plug in an external preamp in the loop and the thing would still want to feedback..Output Section
Tony

[didit]

Hello Tony --

Through both long ancient series of posts again with curiosity yesterday, the "feedback" and also "build". Forgotten about that brief clone war.

Noted from the photos what appeared to be 100uF plates, then 20uF+20uF+40uF+20uF. That last one tucked in up in the corner behind the FET. Differences across the photo at top of the "feedback" chain and those in the "build" thread. However consistent values. Perhaps different amps? Unconvinced this was the difference that made a difference in any case. Couldn't see a nice detailed photo showing power stage -- PI components and lead dress. Any thoughts and potential for other photos that provide another closer peek?

Best .. Ian

[martin manning]

I have a "raw" labeled pot on the back of my super reverb that was there when I got it. That pot increases the resistance of the GF. What value would you suggest trying in the 102? What do you think would happen if I go too low with the filter caps? Just noisey? Mushy bottom end?

I would think that increasing the FB resistor (adding a pot) up to 5x its current value would be enough to see what reduced GNFB could bring. The global FB wire is the most likely candidate for creating positive feedback in the power stage, since the output signal is in phase with the PI's input grid. The loose bottom end that comes with decreasing the power stage filters is probably not desirable, so personally I wouldn't be too eager to try that.

[Guy77]

This is one of my fav modes when doing ODS builds. I almost always install a pot for GNFB and then dial it to taste!

G

[norburybrook]

every track on here was recorded with a telecaster of some kind and my #102.



https://www.marcuscliffe.com/music


if you listen at 2:46 on track 6 I put a spell on you, you can hear the amp starting to take off






M

I like the arrangement and mix. What mics did you use? Great tone, I would have guessed it was a semi-hollow at first listen. I'm looking forward to trying out a teli for myself now. Maybe that will get me out of my boredom with myself.

Amp was #102, speaker EVM 12 in the closed ported cab. Mic'd with a 1960 Neumann U67.
Clean guitar is a telecaster with P90 neck
Gtr solo is this gtr

marcus- bound tele.jpeg

you were spot on with semi-hollow


because of the Covid situation and not working I had to sell the U67 recently



M