D'lite-ish 6V6 tone tweak questions.

[martin manning]

Dave, did you try disabling the LNFB? It's easy to do if you have the cap at the plate followed by two 10m in series. Just ground the junction of the 10M resistors.

[deiseldave]

Clean channel still no dirt, and when volume maxed, becomes louder than OD channel with level maxed.

Am I understanding you correctly? The clean channel maxed is louder then the clean channel maxed into the OD channel maxed?

IF that is the case, then I would check every value of every resistor and potentiometer in the OD channel.

The four gain stages of the preamp should be louder then the two gain stages of the clean amp unless something in the OD channel is attenuating the volume too much?

The OD channel should increase the volume of the clean channel not lower it.

With respect, 10thtx

Thanks 10thtx - Of course this is with drive adjusted to a useable distortion, and level maxed out. With clean channel volume maxed, the drive pot can only go to about 9-10 oclock before the level of distortion gets just silly. At that setting, with drive at 9-10 oclock and level maxed. The clean channel is louder than the OD channel.
I have double checked all the values. When I put clean channel volume back to 12 to 2 oclock the gain structure to OD is good, and I can make a good distortion happen that is louder than the clean. But that setting has the clean channel with 0 hair. I would like a good blues tone out of channel 1, and a rock tone out of the OD. But, am unable to marry the two.
I can get it to happen just on the OD setting by using my guitar volume. Just wanting to see if I can get both channels to my tastes.
Thanks again.

[deiseldave]

Dave, did you try disabling the LNFB? It's easy to do if you have the cap at the plate followed by two 10m in series. Just ground the junction of the 10M resistors.

Thanks Martin. I made mine more like the 124. Cap between the two 22M. I noticed you said 10M. Are we talking about the LNFB at V1B?

[martin manning]

Yes sorry 22M. You can ground the junction on the grid side of the cap then. That should get more distortion coming out of the clean stages.

[deiseldave]

Thanks Martin. I will try that.

[Smokebreak]

Have you tried any of the Bluesmaster arrangement? Being that anything you do to the clean side will affect the OD side, and the fact that everything is a compromise, you may consider changing the PI to a Marshall/Bluesmaster. Heck you might even like it better. The BM cleans are great, and the gripe with it is that the clean side breaks up too early...

[deiseldave]

Have you tried any of the Bluesmaster arrangement? Being that anything you do to the clean side will affect the OD side, and the fact that everything is a compromise, you may consider changing the PI to a Marshall/Bluesmaster. Heck you might even like it better. The BM cleans are great, and the gripe with it is that the clean side breaks up too early...

Thanks Smokebreak. How hard would it be to convert? Major surgery? Can you point me towards the best build info (Scheme/Layout)? Thanks again.

[Smokebreak]

Not difficult at all to change the PI. You should be able to parallel in a lot of stuff. The BM has a Marshall tone stack, and PI, basically. I think the plates/cathodes are different, but nonetheless I would start with the PI and see where it gets you, then hit the tonestack, then hit the plates. Of course this will all change the OD, so stop when you like the cleans, then adjust the OD. This is also assuming any of this works towards your liking
https://tubeamparchive.com/files/bm_dcl ... 71_552.pdf

[deiseldave]

Not difficult at all to change the PI. You should be able to parallel in a lot of stuff. The BM has a Marshall tone stack, and PI, basically. I think the plates/cathodes are different, but nonetheless I would start with the PI and see where it gets you, then hit the tonestack, then hit the plates. Of course this will all change the OD, so stop when you like the cleans, then adjust the OD. This is also assuming any of this works towards your liking
https://tubeamparchive.com/files/bm_dcl ... 71_552.pdf

Thanks Smokebreak.

[deiseldave]

Yes sorry 22M. You can ground the junction on the grid side of the cap then. That should get more distortion coming out of the clean stages.

I put this on a switch in the back. This got me almost there. It gives me a little bit of breakup on clean side starting at about 2-3 oclock, and has a good blues tone maxed out. I like the sound, too. I was scared that removing LNFB would be a lot more raw sounding than it is.
So, before I go the Bluesmaster changes route, I would like to try and squeeze a little more early breakup out of V1, by lowering it's voltage.
I currently have 185/190V on V1 plates with a 10K B+5 dropping resistor, and V2 is 203/209V with 18K B+4 dropping resistor. I'm thinking to keep V2 voltages high to help with the clean vs OD volume war. Thinking about upping that 10K B+5 dropping resistor.
How low do you think I dare go with V1 voltages? Thanks.

[Smokebreak]

Well, you're not gonna hurt anything to get them super low. Might as well drop em down to 120V so you can see what it sounds like at an extreme
To me things just get too inarticulate when they are that low. I would think , though, that you would have nothing sonically to gain under 170V on V1

[deiseldave]

Well, you're not gonna hurt anything to get them super low. Might as well drop em down to 120V so you can see what it sounds like at an extreme
To me things just get too inarticulate when they are that low. I would think , though, that you would have nothing sonically to gain under 170V on V1

Thanks Smokebreak.

[Smokebreak]

I know we're talking different amps, but i just checked a 2nd/3rd gen type and my cleans are sparkly all the way up, and just filthy with the PAB. That amp is a Classic stack with the 22M resistors separating bass top and wiper, and treble bottom and bass top.
I understand that the point of PAB is for a boost, but in theory you could also set things up so that a relay triggers the PAB(or some form of it) only in clean mode. Just throwin ideas up.

[deiseldave]

I know we're talking different amps, but i just checked a 2nd/3rd gen type and my cleans are sparkly all the way up, and just filthy with the PAB. That amp is a Classic stack with the 22M resistors separating bass top and wiper, and treble bottom and bass top.
I understand that the point of PAB is for a boost, but in theory you could also set things up so that a relay triggers the PAB(or some form of it) only in clean mode. Just throwin ideas up.

Now that is an interesting idea. Thank you very much. I'll play with these options, and report back.

[Smokebreak]

Have fun