To those who voted.

[CaseyJones]

Illegal immigrants aren't doing high-paid, glamorous jobs...they're doing the shit that fussy Americans don't WANT to do. They're gutting chickens...picking vegetables...cleaning up after fussy Americans...shitty jobs.

Believe me...you WANT them (the working ones) here.

I'll take the ones who play loud mariachi music all night. Must be they work second shift.

But dammit, even though it sounds like a good party I bet I ain't invited. I'd be pissed, too.

If our govt got serious about keeping the rapists and robbers in prison we wouldn't have some of the gang problems that plague us...

....but until they let the dope smokers OUT of jail...they can't get the gangsters IN!!!

That's another paradox. IMHO it comes down to poor parenting. Follow this one...

The rapists and robbers don't need to get locked up when they're 20-something or 30 something. They need a swift kick in the ass when they're 5 years old. The paradox is that some of 'em get their ass kicked repeatedly and without good cause when they're little grubs. So there's yer paradox. The root caused of criminality is either lack of a swift kick in ass or an abundance of ass kicking. It's difficult to tell one from the other.

So... off the little turds go to school. The supposedly overpaid teachers can't administer a much needed swift kick in the ass and they're not entirely effective in identifying at-risk kids from the other extreme. Even at that if they accurately identify an at-risk kid the likely outcome is that the at-risk kid will be tossed into the screwed up social services system. Then we're up against the paradox again, we have a mix of would-be (will be!) criminals from both camps, those in need of a good ass-kicking and those who have experienced repeated and excessive ass-kicking.

Somewhere along the line we get substance abuse. We got suburban gangsta wannabes doin' dope 'cuz they're bored, we got real urban gangstas who do dope 'cuz it makes their reality tolerable. 'Course we got a mobile society so we got other critters like urban gangstas who move to small towns. Big fish in a small pond. It's outlaw chic, yer gangta-ism is magnified in small town.

Then we got cops. We got cops 'cuz it's a growing sector of our economy, that and the corrections industry. We got cops 'cuz we're an immoral society, we can't treat our neighbors with respect. We can't treat our neighbors with respect 'cuz we didn't get a timely kick in the ass when we were kids. We didn't treat our neighbors with respect back then and we got away with it. That or we were gettin' our asses kicked anyway so it didn't matter. There's that paradox again.

Ah. But the cops can't administer a good ass-kicking. Not legally. They turn it over to the courts, the courts can't administer a good ass-kicking, either. The courts... if everything goes well... send Little Johnny Scumbag to jail... eventually. Sometimes it takes a couple tries. If all goes according to plan that's where Little Johnny gets his ass kicked. By his peers.

There's a kinda sicko-funny punchline to this one, too. For what it costs to keep Johnny in jail you could pay him a working man's wage to run a machine somewhere. It costs about the same to have him sit in a subsidized apartment with a locater around his ankle smokin' dope and watchin' porn. The cool thing is that Johnny creates way more jobs than I do. We need cops to chase his ass down and get him into the system. We need judges, lawyers and court clerks to process his ass once he's in the system. We need corrections officers to babysit his ass and administration personnel to keep track of the whole process. We need parole officers, probation officers and social workers to keep his ass in line once he's back in my world.

So I guess we need Johnny Scumbag, too. Otherwise, what are the cops gonna do? Pick lettuce?!

[Ron Worley]

Hey Casey-

FYI- I left Texas to do that job in Canada and when it didn't work out came back home to our great state....

So I know how we think!!

Ron

[RHGraham]

Well, before it turns into another bash-canada-fest, I just came off a ten-year stint in the US, and I'm back home, In Canada.

It's been my experience that there is simply NO perfect place.
There, here, anywhere else.

I don't know where you were at when you were here Ron, but I'm sorry you didn't get good health care, I feel bad, as a Canadian, that you didn't have a better experience with it. Most Canadians don't have that experience, but unfortunately, some do.

I had the worst excuse of "health care" while I was in Wisconsin myself, the damage done by the for-profit system will take many years to recover from, if at all. Unfortunately, I had a bad experience that most Americans don't seem to have, thankfully for them.

I've also come to the conclusion, from living, working, and traveling extensively on both sides of the border, that our respective media machines suck, blow, and spew shit at pretty much the same frequency, Canadians are convinced most of Canada's problems are due to or neighbors south, and Americans are convinced their problems are caused by those to the north. (or whoever it is necessary to blame something on today...) Pick a subject. Food, timber, clothing, oil, chromium, vanadium, uranium, wheat, corn, fish....

It's all bullshit. My very best friends, and my Wife, are American.
My Family, and another group of my best friends are Canadian. I love them all. And they are pretty much all the same. They all work damn hard, they all pay taxes that are misspent, they are all miss-represented by governments that do whatever they want, when they want, DESPITE the "people's wishes". And they are fed a steady diet of mindless crap by the "media", day in, day out, that has little to do with the way things are... just about the way you should be consuming.
We're all so used to it, we just stand back and watch the trainwreck take place and are too lazy to say, or do anything about it. Somebody else will look after it.

Obama? Looks to me to be another professional politician. I can't see any more merit than that in him, or any other member of the US government .
Or mine either, to be honest. He'll have his own group of lobbyists he'll have to grease and lube to get what HE and HIS people want done.
Maybe it'll be better than the last.
And maybe it'll be just different. Time will tell.

"For the people, by the people"
"Democracy"

Yeah, words. Ideas. We've allowed ourselves to be mind-wiped of all that those words mean.

But it's ok.
You have insurance.... go get another bottle of pills.
Everything will be fine.

[Ron Worley]

Please don't get me wrong- my grandfather was born in Hamilton, ON, and I spent much of my youth on the Lake Erie shore listening to 107 FM out of Toronto where I became a huge Rush, Triumph, Max Webster, Kim Mitchell, April Wine fan...

We loved Canada, but honestly the medical and tax system made it really hard. That and the Ontario Beer Store with $30 cases of beer (albeit great) and the liquor store where a liter of scotch was $35+....

We still have great friends there and go back in the summer, but this was aboot (could not resist) the medical system, now wasn't it?

Ron

[RHGraham]

Yeah, the biggest thing that pissed me off when I got home?

friggin beer prices are insane. All tax.
Just ain't right.



We listened to the same music... a few of the guys from April Wine grew up not far from where I'm at right now. And Rik Emmet is truly a great guy.

Anyway, I see the respective medical systems as a " six of one, half dozen of the other" deal.

Yes, our healthcare can be lacking sometimes, social systems are never ideal, too many bureaucrats involved, all spending money that isn't theirs. It never gets spent where it should, and we suffer by having less than fantastic health care sometimes.

Then again, there is healthcare for profit, which comes with it's own set of issues, least of which peoples health and wellbeing being counterproductive to profit in a country where profit is pretty much the ONLY thing large companies give a shit about. So you suffer from less than fantastic healthcare sometimes.

At least we don't have to worry about the health insurance company going out of it's way to not pony up when the bills come in.

Well, that's a small consolation in the end. It all sucks.

In any case, I mainly wanted to jump in before it got to bashing Canadians, or Canadians bashing Americans, because it's all a waste of time. Mostly we are the same people, with the same problems, being screwed inside out by the same group of professional politicians and life time bureaucrats on both side of the border.... and none of them EVER admit to a mistake or something being their fault , it ALWAYS has to be somebody else. Rarely does a little inconsequential thing like the truth make a difference.

Anyway, I got a guitar to build.
We still got trees man. ( for now anyway)

[Tubetwang]

Randal why did you jumped in man?

We were having a good old time shooting the shit...

[RHGraham]

Sorry, didn't mean to ruin anybody's fun...

bitchin and whinin is after all a fine international tradition...

[CaseyJones]

Yeah, the biggest thing that pissed me off when I got home?

friggin beer prices are insane. All tax.
Just ain't right.

Man, that's easy. Boogie across the border, pick up a couple cases of Old Milwaukee, boogie back home. Fill up on gas while you're here.

You get what you pay for when it comes to beer though.

Could always brew yer own. Just don't tell the Ministry of Beer Tax. I'm sure they got one!

Well, before it turns into another bash-canada-fest, I just came off a ten-year stint in the US, and I'm back home, In Canada.

Picture this: The hockey game is about to start. All the players are lined up, helmets off. A familiar tune comes over the P.A.:

"Blame Canada...

Our Neighbor to the North!

Blame Canada...

'Cuz it's all their fault!"

It's been my experience that there is simply NO perfect place.
There, here, anywhere else.

I disagree. My pick is the tit bar right in the middle of Sherbrooke. It don't get any better than that.

That's solidly in Canada last time I checked.

It's all bullshit. My very best friends, and my Wife, are American.
My Family, and another group of my best friends are Canadian. I love them all. And they are pretty much all the same. They all work damn hard, they all pay taxes that are misspent, they are all miss-represented by governments that do whatever they want, when they want, DESPITE the "people's wishes". And they are fed a steady diet of mindless crap by the "media", day in, day out, that has little to do with the way things are... just about the way you should be consuming.
We're all so used to it, we just stand back and watch the trainwreck take place and are too lazy to say, or do anything about it. Somebody else will look after it.

Ah. There's a good topic. If I could ever be serious for more than half a minute at a time I could write a nice essay on that for The Atlantic or something. If there was a paycheck involved of course.

Makes me wonder what came first, the chicken or the egg? 'Cuz the media tracks the ever shorter attention span of the public perfectly. The short answer is that public wants quick easy answers and the media provides 'em. It's appropriate that it's a short answer. The public doesn't want to have to pay attention, remember, or reason their way through anything. The media caters to that perfectly. We usually don't hear about progress or the outcome as long as The Next Big Thing arrives on schedule. Which it usually does in the next soundbite.

Case in point... how many of you get past the first sentence or two of my posts? See? There ya go!

[RHGraham]

Caseyjones, i always read your posts completely.

Sometimes twice.

At some point, I'll be buying you a beer.

Please, no old milwaaakee though.
A man has to have standards.

(My fave T&A joint is in Beloit Wis. actually...)

[Cygnus X1]

Brewing beer is a very cool hobby!

I've been doing it for a couple of years...it's not very difficult or expensive to make some excellent brews.

If I lived in Canada...that's all I would drink...homebrew.

Forget it if you enjoy a fine cigar, though. Even Dominicans cost TEN TIMES what they cost here in the deep south of the United States.

[gahult]

Speaking of T&A joints.

Do strippers in Australia spin around the pole in the opposite direction??

Gary

[dr. who]

I think I have already stated the background for this earlier in the thread.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/26/al.qae ... index.html
If ol' Al is going to hit at least we'll know that the Bush regime is pulling those strings. Kinda weird how Bush just made another CIA-esque intel agency for offensive counter-intel. I wonder if some of their offence is not to scare the us into accepting a police state to make it easier to "quell terrorist uprisings" and bring in a new world order agenda...
I am just keeping my fingers crossed that the pres-elect will actually see his inaugration, not be read the nspd bs and told that he'll probably never be president because king bush is installed until he dies and the next bush heir takes over the united stated of bush.

[gahult]

Thought we were gettin into Canada, Beer, and T & A bars .........hell left to flow we might even get around to tequila and Mexico, and anti terrorism Texas style (rifle racks in the rear window of yer pu truck). Now that should be legal nation wide.

Gary

[Structo]

anti terrorism Texas style (rifle racks in the rear window of yer pu truck). Now that should be legal nation wide.

Gary

It's not?

[Aurora]

That and the Ontario Beer Store with $30 cases of beer (albeit great) and the liquor store where a liter of scotch was $35+....

Sorry guys, but I can't resist this one....I've been following this thread with some interest....

In my corner of the world, a crate of beer ( 24 pints) is now around 80$..with the exhange rate valid 3 months ago, it was around 95. A litre of scotch is now around 90 for the cheaper ones.... a good single malt will start around 140.

OTOH - there's a max sum for everyone to pay of 200$ per annum for health care - doctors, hospitals, physio, shrinks- whatever is your need. After that it's all free. I don't have to save to send my kids to uni - it's all free! No tuition fees! Imagine this - you don't need rich parents or a football grant to go to college.....? High school is a basic civic right, unless you just give a hoot! I hold a BSc from the mid 70s which would have been totally impossible without this system.
This is in general terms the system of most of the old western Europe, - give or take a few points her and there....
To some of you, this is truly synonymous with PURE SOCIALISM
To most europeans, this is the way it works.. it is most certainly not a system without flaws, - and equally important to us - it is LIGHTYEARS away from true socialism. It is called a social democracy - for most of the McCarthyers of the 50s, this was in the same leage as true communism.
How blinded they must have been, - or lacking knowledge - or even worse ; - purposely ignorant!
During the last couple of months we have seen the weak sides of John Maynard Keynes ideas opposing the communsist economy. National and international economy cannot be left to run itself. Even your president and the p.elect, as well as old Alan Greenspan, have admitted that some form of extrajudicial control of the "Moneymakers" are indeed an absolute necessity.