New Liverpool from old Rocket

[azatplayer]

Well, i just built this wicked twice powered 5E3 with a few adjustments.
I gotta say can you get enough 6V6 love? 4 of the buggers, is just too cool.
What i discovered along the way with that amp is that with a pair of KT66's, all my clean tone is taken care of. Absolutely awesome.

Which has bought me back to my Rocket clone i did a few months ago, which is an excellent amp, but with the JMP, the Maz Invasion, KT66 deluxe, i have all similar cleanish type amps, yes the JMP i would call cleanish.

So, being a simple manipulation of parts, but basically same amp, the Rocket has now become a Liverpool. Got a Toneslut LP OT in and made another board, few tweaks here and there, and i have the only gain monster in my arsenal.

My mate Lee built an express around the same time i did the rocket, his was brilliant out of the box, sounds great, and cleans up really nice.

I took the LP to his work today for him to try out, get his op on the similarities and whatnot. Very impressed. More gain on tap than his express, just a little, and more chimey. Maybe a little thinner. But so similar.

Drove it thru a 1x12 G12H30, and gave it a good workout (he works in a guitar store) sounded really chimey, but rolled off the gain cleans sooo nice.
Far out what an amp!

So what i discovered is this, over the posted layout what i have is a 56K in place of the 150K, just tames the gain, EL84's dont need a lot of encouraging to gain up!, and a 12AT7 in the phase inverter. Also to take a little gain out. Loses no volume or tone to my ears, but makes the whole sweep on the volume pot usable. Sounds brilliant thru a bluedog webber or G12H30, i used a on-off-on switch for the bright caps, that was al;l i had in my drawer, but works really good. The difference between off and the first value if small, but makes a bright tele bridge sweet rather than bearable. and costs no more to have 3 choices. 82k on the PI load. rest stock.

What a bastard to tube tho! Damn, i must have 30 or more 12AX7's, it likes only 2! A bugle boy and a tungsram, the latter being more gainy, the BB more bright.

I had used 2 JJ multicans 40-20-20-20, on the rocket initially, but have changed the first one out for a single 80uf can mounted on the rec board between the diodes and the choke. Pretty cool i think. Works nicely.

Still has a little hiss, about the same as Lees express, so im happy enough.

Thanks again to Toneslut

Would post a pic, but its the same as the rocket bar a few changes i posted back then. And has more holes in it..

[CapnCrunch]

Cool!

I have a rocket build that I'm sitting on. I bought the chassis, trannies, and assorted parts from one of the guys here. I've had it since the spring, but haven't had time to build it over the summer. In that time I've been thinking about how I actually play, and now I'm thinking of turning it into a Liverpool also.

I've heard people say the Rocket is a better amp if you like using pedals, so I even dug out my old pedals and built a pedal board and have been messing around with them through my 18 watt and AC-15. I've come to the conclusion that I just like to crank my amp, run my guitar volume between 1 and 10 for various degrees of volume and OD, and that I don't like overdrive pedals much at all. How do you think the LP will take some delay, chorus and phase on the front end? I'm kind of torn, because I could use the Rocket clean, but there is just no pedal substitute for good amp overdrive.........Lastly, how usable is the clean on the Liverpool. Does it sound good and how much headroom does it have?

Thanks

[geetarpicker]

In my experience I got less clean headroom with a Liverpool than an Express. Perhaps a little more volume drop when going for clean on a Liverpool compared to an Express. Liverpools sound great, but in some ways the volume loss when going for cleans is a deal breaker for me.

[CapnCrunch]

Thanks Glen.

Ultimately it would be nice to have clones of the Rocket, the Express and the Liverpool, but it's gonna take me a while to get there. I appreciate your take on the volume loss. I'd be playing this amp live most of the time, so that may be a deal breaker for me as well. I think I'll go with the Rocket and tweak it a little and see what happens. I think it will be an easier build anyway.

It's funny how you evolve over time. I used to use overdrive pedals through my amps set just at the break up point and then push them over the top with pedals. I have some nice OD pedals too. After I got some amps with really good overdriven tones, my pedals went bye/bye, and I am having a hard time bringing them back. Sorry for hi-jacking the thread

[soma_hero]

CapnCrunch,

depends on the pedal as far as how well it interacts with the amp. I can use my boss delays/line6 on the liverpool and rocket i've built and they don't produce too much noise.

Can't use my Akai Headrush with either though, just too noisy. But if i run the Headrush into my AC30, it's dead quiet.

If you need pedals I'd say go for a rocket, won't really work well in the liverpool.

[azatplayer]

Its correct to say the express and liverpool dont really take to pedals. I love some delay and have had many delays over the years, what DOES work well without the associated noise in an express or pool is the MXR carbon copy. This is a pretty cheap pedal, has great delays, and is immensely quiet thru these amps. Real surprise actually. My memory man is a noisy bugger, shame as i love it.
Pedal friendly is the rocket for sure.
But the caveat is this, either of these amps sound brilliant by themselves. They dont need the effects, theres such a depth to the harmonic content, such musical tone, very full of life that the delays, while nice, are not really adding much.
As for volume loss, this is a friggin loud amp, with massive gain on tap. Depends what we call clean, as you say you typically ran your amps on the edge, then pushed them with a pedal, i think the edge on the pool is not that much less than pushed, after all a volume rise is what we want on a solo.
All that to say tho, i would not have destroyed my rocket, had i not had the same/similar amp, i LOVE the rockets tone, that style of amp is my mainstay, its MY tone, i found i had just got too many amps that style, and it was the easiest to modify. Really happy with the results.

[azatplayer]

Well with a little more time on this amp, i have now to fully agree with geetarpicker. We used it to record with the other night, and i did have trouble getting the right tones at the right volume. Gees its loud. Could only make use of the cleans, as the driven tone was too loud. I ended up pulling two tubes in the end, and adjusting the impedance to suit. Sounded really good, but not a lot less apparent volume. Seemed to get to the sweet spot nicely tho. As a two holer, this has gotta rival my old Dr Z maz jr, now that was a loud amp, this must be right on it.

[M Fowler]

The Rocket takes pedals very well and I have had no issues with that. Its a great amp for playing straight up no pedals or adding a pedal board to.

The Liverpool doesn't need pedals for gain but one could try a reverb or something but I don't think that is going to go well. I actually haven't even tried as running the Liverpool through the 212 celestion blues sounds great but may need to go with golds as the amp gets loud and those blues will take a lot of abuse like that.

Forget about pedals with an Express. Its you, the guitar/volume knob and the amp as one. I like the Pacific 6.6k better than the 5.2k though.

Mark