Super pots? Any takers?

[geetarpicker]

Yep I got lucky about two years ago and found a matched set of '61 era Centralab pots off ebay for $120 that I put in my '03 blacktop historic. That's the LP I had at the Nashville Amp show. These pots probably came out of '61 SG. The downside is they are all are little low at 440k or so. That said, the guitar doesn't seem too dark with them (using stock burst buckers) and actually sounds clearer overall than it did with modern pots that were a tad over 500k. Even though these pots are a tad newer than those in my '59 the taper is identical.

I don't have any treble bleed caps in my Les Pauls or strats, though I did put them in my new Gretsch.

Yes the Centralabs come on quite smooth and slow, and I haven't found a new 500k type pot that does as well. Still with an Express cranked up with a Les Paul you still have to get the guitar down in the 2-4 range for clean. It does seem possible to find new 250ks that are just fine, but the 500ks are another story.

I measured the original Centralab pots in my '59 to get a handle on their taper. I found for example on 1 they measure 2k, on 2 they measure about 12k, on 3 about 30k, on 6 still only about 100k, and only get passed 250k around 6-7 on the knob. They all vary but this is a good average. Only 1 pot is right at 500k full up, and the others range from 590-890k when wide open!

I have played some recent era PRS guitars with very nice pots that are probably 500ks. Not sure if they would fit in a LP, and/or are hard to source as spare parts.

[rooster]

billyz - Yeah, I bet that does sound fantastic. Wow, 600K, eh? That makes so much sense in a way.

As does the PG setup. That cat was smart because it really sets up a dual HBr gtr for the perfect rhythm volume and tone (neck pickup alone, potted down), and then the 'vocal' tone of the two pickups on together (bridge on 10, neck pickup potted down slightly), and then the bridge (on 10) alone for the crazy stuff. Smart combination I think.

I have a LP set up like this, (not with the pickups you are running, however), and I really dig it. But it made no sense without the RG pots. Man, from the sound of this, the 'Centralab' (correct?) pots are the real king of pots. Man, you got a sweet gtr there, billyz, keep an eye on it.

Well, OK, thanks for the pot info. Do you run a treble bleed cap, BTW? Also, have you heard the Dimarzio Eric Johnson HB? Its like 7.1K for the neck and I have read that it is not bad. Yeah, I know, how can it be any good for $65 but I have to try it.

[rooster]

Glen - Ow, sorry I was writing when you posted. Geez, between you an billyz with those pots, I am totally sucking....

Thanks for posting the info on the resistances, that is at least a reference to compare the new pots to. I am confused as to your measuring point? Ground to center lug? The input lug and the pickup lug? Which way did you measure this?

[billyz]

I am not running a treble bleed cap either. Actually, I have tried them and don't care for it. My guitar is plenty bright without them and not harsh or icepicky. I like the effect of rolling down the volume pot for a different tone too. They really clean up on the lower settings without getting muddy or dark.

Not sure what the pots would measure in the guitar, I measured them before I put them in. I scored them too The set with a selector switch was $75 on Ebay.

[paulster]

The set with a selector switch was $75 on Ebay.

That sounds like a bargain!

The RS Superpots are pretty good as new production pots go but the taper at the bottom end is clearly a way away from the Centralab pots and it makes it more difficult to get into the clean tone sweet spot on an Express as a consequence.

[redshark]

Well, with the super pots you can get the clean around 3(with TW express) , the problem is that when you start turning it up the gain doesn't come as smooth as with the centralab pots. But you can still get the cleans.
I don't know if Glen remembers how my pots reacted, but I'm sure he heard something because then is when he suggested me to use his black LP to experience a smoother transition.

[rooster]

http://www.ultimateguitargear.com/ken_f ... ter2_1.htm ???

redshark - did you ask about the bleeder cap info? Well, my browser is acting up but here is at least one article from Ken about the guitar pots. The article about the bleeder caps and the actual tone caps themselves are there, too. Take a look at Ken's heading at the top, you will find them.

The maddening thing about this article on pots, BTW, is the fact that when Ken wrote this, there were plenty of Centralab pots out there!! Plainly, as you read the article, it becomes clear that Ken had no special regard for 'THE PERFECT TAPER' pot - something he had to be aware of. You would think that he would really focus on this considering how a great pot would improve the operation of his Express! Well, he skirts it, even though he does talk about compression and volume of certain amps. Ah, there might not be many things Ken took for granted, but the very wonderful Centralab guitar pot could be one of them. Maybe he thought they would always be around when he wrote that? That or maybe he figured all the pros knew about it and the newbees wouldn't care.

Thanks, BTW, to Glen and billyz for sharing about the lack of bleeder caps on your gtrs. Hmm, that's some pot, that's what I'm thinking.

[billyz]

A Bleeder Cap is a personal preference and may also be dependent on the guitar, Pickups, your settings and how you use your controls. The value is also very user dependent. Try them , if you like them then fine. I have tried them and feel they somehow change the taper of the volume as well. Also, Being very old school and having owned mostly now Vintage guitars, I have come to expect and even use the tonal change of a rolled off Volume pot.

They are not magic, they pass some highs around the pot and the effect is more noticeable the more you roll down the pot. Even disconnecting a pot will brighten the signal and prevent signal loss. The reason why Fender bypasses the tone control on the bridge PU in a Stratocaster. One mod for the fender is to connect the tone control to the Bridge PU to tame the highs, makes the pickup sound smoother even with the tone control full on.

Higher Value Pots will also brighten and strengthen the signal. I have read quite a few accounts of the Centralab pots being more often over value , and usually by quite a bit. Of course, the taper is very good for a Humbucking PU.

I have also had very good results with the Allesandro Pots. The taper is perfect in my Nocaster. I tried quite a few pots and it never was quite right until I bit the bullet and tried the Allesandro pots.

[geetarpicker]

"One mod for the fender is to connect the tone control to the Bridge PU to tame the highs, makes the pickup sound smoother even with the tone control full on."

True. On all my strats I have a jumper wire on the neck tone control so that it also works on the bridge pickup, leaving the 2nd tone on the middle pickup. I jump the terminals on the switch. Therefore I have tone controls available on all 5 positions. Actually in positions 2 & 4 BOTH tone controls are in the circuit together so that mellows out those two positions even more. That along with a big .1uf tone cap is one secret (oooops, let the cat out of the bag...) I like on my strats with the Wreck. I didn't realize the extra loading made such a difference, when I couldn't quite get my new relic as mellow as my callaham until adding the jumper and big cap. Now all my strats are like this. That said, my PAF pickup Les Pauls are stock 50s wiring. I like the strat mod because it makes going from the LP to the strat quite seamless not usually needing an amp setting change.

[kec]

Glen, Any particular .1uF tone cap that you use? I may have to try this.

[redshark]

Rooster Yes, I just printed Ken's article and read. thanks!!

Glen..on my Les paul to make it more affordable could I just replace the volume pots with vintage centralabs and leave the standard cts pots for tone? Seemed to me the taper is more critical on the volume pots to manipulate the gain on the express and the tone controls can be left alone? I would like to hear your comments on that please.

[geetarpicker]

Glen, Any particular .1uF tone cap that you use? I may have to try this.

My Callaham has what looks like a little mylar .1 cap. I used a .1 Sozo in my Relic as I had it in the drawer.

[geetarpicker]

Rooster Yes, I just printed Ken's article and read. thanks!!

Glen..on my Les paul to make it more affordable could I just replace the volume pots with vintage centralabs and leave the standard cts pots for tone? Seemed to me the taper is more critical on the volume pots to manipulate the gain on the express and the tone controls can be left alone? I would like to hear your comments on that please.

That would probably work ok. The tones are nice to "work" also, but probably not as critical taper wise. FYI I have some of those green oil filled caps in my historic LP and they sound good. I think they are made in Russia, and originally came with some Dr. Vintage pots I bought but can be sourced separately.

[rooster]

I just found a '66 Melody Maker (single pickup) that had a great taper to the pot. I was able to check it out up close and found that the pots were CTS. They are dated 66-1, part number 004019, and yes they are 500K, measuring 515K on one and 519K on the other - yes, same pot in both positions.

Well, here I can only add that - WTF - they don't make things like they used to, and maybe with a part number one of you might find the magic more easily. Good hunting.

[rooster]

Just a post to let you know what I thought about the EJ pickup. I didn't like it in my LP after a few days. It had some plus's like low output and clarity - both good for a neck pickup - but basically it lacked that 'low end thing' that is more typical on a good neck HB. ...And, in the end, the low output really didn't balance well with the bridge pickup, a 57 Classic Plus. ....All of which surprised me.

My problem is I have heard and played some great PAFs, I guess. Which is to say that I know it is very possible to have a HB neck pickup that has good bass, good output, and good clarity, as well.

How Gibson was able to do this I am not positive, but there are more than a few pickup winders out there who think that the two bobbins were mismatched. Any, after some debate on spending more money, I picked up a Fralin 'unbucker' pickup which seems to fit the bill very well. To be honest, if I had not tried the EJ pickup, I am very sure that I would not have understood what it was I was hearing in all the great PAFs I have played. ...And also what I was not hearing in the 57 Classic and Burstbucker 1, and even the typical Fralin PAF - all relating to the neck postion, BTW. ....And the trip was interesting - but I hope somebody can learn something from this and save a few bucks.

Getting back to the pots, even the RSG pots, and using them with this neck pickup, running through the pickup changes, well, its like a dream to me. I have always been a total Strat freak because of all the sounds you can get, but now I realize that a LP has many many sounds, too. .....Well, you need the amp of course. So, thank you Glen for your truly excellent videos, and thank you Ken Fischer, always!