Strange experience with power tubes and OTs..

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rooster
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Strange experience with power tubes and OTs..

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I have two Express's here, one with the Tonesluts M27 steel frame OT, with the two primarys, 5?00 and 6600 ohms, the other with a Hammond 25 watt OT, 7600 ohms primary and *I do not know the steel type - *(edited: The steel is M6, a material used apparently in all Hammond audio OTs). (Of note: Chris has added a 'vintage' version now using M19 steel and a single primary. The latter is pretty much a clone of the Pacific OT as far as I know and I have not heard this OT. I have played out of a Pacific equipped Express - very nice, yes.)

OK, this is what I have discovered lately, toss it or use it.

I am realizing that certain OTs like certain power tubes. If you all are into this then cool, but if not then read on.

I used to think that it was an primary impedance thing entirely, but now I think it is a steel thing, as well, and maybe even wire size within the OT coil. Eh?

I can tell you I am not capable of teaching a class on this, but I have at least developed a 'taste' for certain combinations - particular power tubes and particular OTs, and this is what I want to share/discuss here. In fact, I think there could be a chart made of some of the combinations and it could be helpful.

My Hammond OT has a primmary of 7600 ohms and pretty small wire, certainly smaller than the #32 guage used in the TS OT. Apparently this wire size is a pretty quick compromise: smaller frame/smaller wire. There can be exceptions to this, but it is not typical to find them.

OK moving on to the combinations that I am liking with either of these two OTs. First up is the Hammond. I positively hate the J/J 6V6 with this OT. When I first ran with these I thought they were actually cool with it. But now I am very clear that that was a mistake on my part. The tone and general grind of these tubes in this amp really started to sour me on the J/J 6V6 in general. I switched then to the J/J KT77s. Fantastic! Yes, louder, but the character of the gtr tone was greatly improved. I also tried the Philips 6L6GC tube here, the famous STR# version with double getters - again, fantastic! And frankly, this tube is so good that it sounds fantastic in virtually any amp so no surprises.

OK, that is all I tried in the Hammond OT for now. The downside in using the larger tube is that the 25 watt volume is now pretty lost. The amp is just louder with the bigger tubes.

OK, so on to the TS M27 OT. I think this is a pretty good OT so it doesn't surprise me that, biased at 40 ma, the J/J KT77s sound great here. The Philips 6L6STR sound even better oddly enough. The Siemens EL34s, not as good as the J/Js, the Mullard XF2s, not as good as the J/J KT77s either. But hold on, wait till you hear the J/J 6V6s in here! They sound great. In fact, they make me a believer in the J/J 6V6 again, and right when I was ready to toss them. Crazy, huh?

As to the Pacific iron, all I have ever heard with it is the Mullard XF2 and it sounds fantastic! Which is kinda weird when you think that I do not like the Mullard with the M27 TS OT. To my ear, the Mullard with the TS OT has way too much midrange. So much so that it blurs the teble and the bass information.

OK, that's all. I thought I would post this to see if anybody else has a combination that they think is a winner. :?: This is regarding the basic Express amp, 400 plate volts.
Last edited by rooster on Sun Sep 06, 2009 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rooster
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Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Strange experience with power tubes and OTs..

Post by rooster »

Oh, I should add that running the J/J 6v6s in the Express with the TS OT doesn't really reduce the output. This is still a loud amp, 25 watts might as well be 50 here. :P
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
User avatar
rooster
Posts: 1622
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:50 am
Location: Pacific NW

Re: Strange experience with power tubes and OTs..

Post by rooster »

Further notes on the J/J 6V6s with the M27 TS OT. I have to report, all in keeping to the subject of certain power tubes mating with certain OTs, that the J/Js - when cranked - start to bring on that midrange blur that I don't like. I find this weird to hear this midrange come jumping out as you turn the amp to the 12- 2 o'clock range, but it does. I am biasing the J/Js @ 30 ma, which puts about 402 VDC on the plates. The J/J KT77s are not this mid heavy actually, so, more volume and all, I am going back to these tubes with this OT. Its just a better fit.

So at this point, not to pretend to be a real scientist with measuring tools, I am thinking that the M27 built OT is midrange prone and for better sonics, the Pacific or the Pacific Tonesluts version may be the better OT. That or you need to find some power tubes that sound good at lower volumes and and then saturate on the 'less' midrange side of the scale, something like the KT77s I think.

Does anybody else have any thought s on this? Any combinations you think are good or completely suck?
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