Clapton + Marshall = The Tone... that Dumble (re)Created

[ayan]

Hi guys,

Every now and then I go back to my roots, as far as what I listed to, so several years ago, I set out to fill in the gaps of my Clapton music collection, acquiring probably everything (CDs and videos) there is to be had from the man himself. For a while I listened heavily to some of his 70s stuff, which many people dismissed as "no value added" work. Anyway, at some point I began revisiting all of the Cream recordings and recongnized that, in addition to being reminded that Clapton's vibrato is probably about as cool as there has ever been, some of those early tones are very similar to what our beloved RF has gone for and achieved with his various Dumbles through the years.

So, back in 1966 Clapton cut "Spoonful" in "Fresh Cream" and, to me, it sounds like what a Dumble Bluesmaster -- may folks' favorite ODS flavor -- eventually repeated. Going further out on a limb, a number of licks that RF adopted into his playing, especially since the 90s, sound to me like a nod to Slowhand.

I'm not sure if anyone has any thoughts along these lines, but the notion that the evolution of the ODS sound stemmed from "trying to come up with an amp that sounded like RF" (paraphrasing Dumble and the ODS) seems to be not such a clear proposition after all these years.

Cheers,

Gil

[Baxtercat]

Well.... that Cream LP, and maybe him on the 1st John Mayall album just about invented the whole vocal-like sustain thing, at least for me. Sure there was the Yardbirds, Bloomfield, some fuzztone garage band 45s. But that was largely a dividing point. From where I stood I remember electric guitar being mostly twinky and surfy until I heard that track Spoonful.

...but y'gotta You Tube guys like Jerry Byrd and Tom Brumley. That's the clean version of tube amps and sustain.

[stelligan]

Early Clapton. Some of the best earlier examples of amplifier as instrument/voice. The summer that Sunshine of Your Love hit...... I remember playing the Crossroads live 45 over and over as a kid on the jukebox at the local YMCA while playing pool. I listened to it over and over and over......Why I didn't buy that record back then and take it home - I don't know. Why the hell doesn't he sound that good anymore? Saw him in the 70's with Muddy Waters opening the show and he still sounded good with Music Man amps I think. Say him with his Tweed Twin last year, ugh... I agree about the Clapton/Ford similarities. I think it stems more from their influence lineage than their gear. Similar heroes I would think. Freddie King, Muddy, BB King, etc.. I actually enjoyed the 70's stuff. I heard that Ocean Boulevard was mostly Champs with big OT's - is that correct?

[KennyB]

Interesting that Robben Ford admired Bloomfield more than Clapton - but wound up with Clapton's tone!

[stelligan]

I don't think anyone would not like to sound like 60 & early 70s EC. If that's only to be had from a Marshall - I guess I need to get me one. Perhaps that's why I dig my HRM so damned much?????? And why I loved my old Tweed Bassman??

[Zippy]

Have you seen the Clapton '97 in Hyde Park DVD? What jumped out at me was the great sounds that he got out of an ES-335. So much better than his more familiar Strat'.

[butwhatif]

I remember sitting 20' in front of ECs 2 Marshall stacks at the Grande Ballroom in Detroit '67, trying to read the amp logos, because we had never seen them before. What a treat, what a tone, what a sight. I went out and ordered a 50w soon after, and blew it up several times, thus how to fix them, my first adventures inside an amp.
I'll never forget the night in '68, an hour after the Cream goodbye concert at Olympia, when EC walked in and took Mick Taylor's 'burst, (he was playing at the Grande w/Mayall), and proceeded to burn the place down in a jam that left everybody literally standing on the tables and chairs screaming for more. There's pix of him doing that on this site--
http://grande.viewbook.com/cream?slidez=true#/1/
Here's a pic of Cream I took at Olympia that night---
Also saw Hendrix in Detroit at Masonic in '67

[jaysg]

Gil,

Do you have the Kook's Kleek bootleg? There are bits of it on youtube. In retrospect, I believe that's the tone he's been chasing all his life. KT-66s are more like 6L6s in his tweed twins, than EL-34s.

[talbany]

I don't know if anyone here remembers the Ronnie Lane Benefit in the early 80's called The Arms concert w/Jeff Beck and Page...The beginning of The Firm w/Paul Rodgers KILLER!! Singer... Anyway Clapton used several Axes on that tour but mostly used an Explorer.. Steve Winwood did some vocal stuff with him..The coolest thing was they did mostly blues standards straight ahead and burned the place down..Have you ever loved a women... Whew!!...After that show I started digging up EC's older works... I found a whole new respect for EC after seeing that.. Footnote...Jeff Beck's performance at the ARMS was mind blowing...A 60's Strat through Twin Reverb little delay setup clean... Changed me!!
It does kind of make you wonder if Robben did those EC covers out of respect and a nod or was working on another tune in the studio and felt he had the Cream tone nailed and started a Politician jam..... Sometimes certain tones force you in a particular direction things come at you without thinking about it bam!! there it is run with it...This to me is where the great ideas come from feels right!!
As for if he and Dumble made a conscience effort to go for the rawer tone of the BM after or before he cut those tracks would no doubt be an interesting conversation... Sure seems likely..I always thought given the huge popularity of the JCM 800's in the 80's was the main reason D went there...I remember asking a former Dumble owner and killer pedal master Dave Barber why he sold his Dumble... He said he bought it for his studio at the time but nobody was interested in using it, everyone wanted his modified JCM...That always kind of resonated with me...



Tony VVT

[Structo]

I haven't cared a lot for EC's tone for the last few years.

It's just not a very full flavored tone for me, and the tweed amps he's using just seem almost too tweedy, if there is such a thing.

I'm thinking his tone may come from his loss of hearing high frequencies, so he is compensating by thinning out his tone to counter what he is hearing.

I love strats as much as the next guy and I am a Fender type guy, mainly because I never could afford an LP.

But the tone on Sunshine to me is the epitome of rock tone.

What did he use on that?

Was that the Bluesbreaker?

I mean it just has this mean growl type crunchy tone.

I know he rolled off the tone control and I believe used the neck pickup.

Was that a 335 of LP?

That song to me is the rock tone.

[tubedogsmith]

Gil, I've kinda thought RF was after the Cream era clapton tone for a long time too. Specifically that Marshall type tone you can only get when ou have one cranked up loud enough to start compressing and rolling off the high end.

[stelligan]

I'll never forget the night in '68, an hour after the Cream goodbye concert at Olympia, when EC walked in and took Mick Taylor's 'burst, (he was playing at the Grande w/Mayall), and proceeded to burn the place down in a jam that left everybody literally standing on the tables and chairs screaming for more.

Lucky Geezer

[ayan]

Thanks or the replies, guys. I wondered if this was going to be another thread that gets no replies. Thanks for hipping me to Kook's Kleek, I did find something on youtube and it was very cool.

Not sure what made EC switch to a Strat and basically not look back, with noted exceptions. Back in the Layla days, I did like the Strat/Champ sound, and I liked the sound he got out of the MM amps too -- although the album "EC Was Here" is mostly a GIbson Explorer, and I like his tone and playing on that one. To me things took a wrong turn when he got the active stuff in his signature model, because was he ended up with was not a Strat tone anymore, and it definitely was not as happening as a Gibson tone either. Amazing at the Hyde Park show, when he switches guitars it's like another guys is playing all together. Begs the question, even before the signature model made the scene in the late 80s, was Fender giving Clapton a boatload of dough to play Strats? Not that he needed the money, but...

Still, although I think he peaked at an insanely young age (how old was he during the Mayall stint, 21?) -- unlike, say, Jeff Beck, who is to me the most incredibly gifted electric guitar player of our times and continues to blow minds in his 60s -- I think the stuff that Clapton started back in the 60s is monumental. My first hero, maybe my last hero as well.

Gil

[jaysg]

Do you have the Eric Clapton and Friends DVD from 1986 with Phil Collins? It's a must have, even though it's only ~60 minutes. He plays a prototype signature strat w/out the mid-boost. The unseen amp is a JCM800 1987 model. The cabs may be the 2-12" EVs in Marshall 4-12" cabs...not sure.

Not sure where your info for EC Was Here comes from. I saw him on that tour...August 1975. All Blackie, all night, plus Yvonne Elliman sang Can't Find My Way Home, alone...much better than the live album.

[talbany]

I searched for some you tube clips of Clapton at the ARMS concert.. Couldn't find any good ones.. Not to derail this thread Gill but I did run into a partial set of Jeff Beck at the same show..I love the tone he gets here.. Quite a departure from his usual Rat pedal through a Marshall gain out the Kazoot..tone.
You kind of miss those harmonics that sound like they were generated from Mars or something .. Doesn't matter.. a lesson on how to use the whammy bar!!
Now back to EC..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VPQXLCx ... L&index=33




Tony VVT