Transformer winding Chatter

[talbany]

I have brand new Mercury Magnetic s Power transformer.. Blackface Vibroverb style..
where upon power up the windings in the Transformer chatter.. Pretty loud too...I'll more than likley replace it but was wondering if this is a manufacturing defect..A poor potting job maybe...Anyone!!



Tony VVT

[Mark]

Dear Talbany

Are you sure it is the windings?

Normally that sort of thing is the laminations buzzing, which means the transformer isn't screwed together tight enough, (from my limited experience.)

[talbany]

Mark

Thanks for the reply...No this is different than a humming or buzzing transformer...The transformer makes a large chatter then goes away just during the inrush stage...The amp is tube rectified... I just installed a new one and this one seems fine so it looks like a bad one slipped through...

Thanks

Tony VVT

[Mark]

Dear Talbany

Sorry I couldn't be of more help and I'm glad the problem is solved.

[heisthl]

Tony - Mercury claims that their PT adds to tone. I've never been able to hear the difference between Heyboer and Mercury power transformers. Have you? I do think their OT's sound a couple of percent better.

[talbany]

Hey Henry

On the power side I really don't see any magic there... The output side they are consistently good sounding transformers a little better than the off the shelf replacements in most builds I would say.. and for some reason seem to sound better the more you use them... I like them mainly for there quality control... I have had to send very few back and that was the first power I had to send back out of hundreds used...Don't get me wrong I've built many amps that use off the shelf replacements Heybor and even some Hammonds...(Lou Toomey Brooks and Dunn.. his main amp has a 1650 Hammond in it no complaints)
that sound wonderful but just don't seem to be as consistent as the MM..
I have had not 1 amp come back due to transformer failure w/ the MM...So from a manufacturer's stand point I sleep a little better at night using the MM..They also allow us to up our warranty to 10 years which is a big marketing +....So I can't say that if you build an amp using the MM that it will sound better..Just a better chance that it will...Hope This helps you!!


Tony VVT

[heisthl]

Thanks - that begs the question - has anyone ever had a Heyboer fail? Infant mortality or melt down?

[tubedogsmith]

I love the Heyboer stuff. I've used a bunch of them over the years and never had a problem. The whole experience with those guys is great. They'll build you whatever to hell you want and you'll have it in about two weeks.

[talbany]

Iv'e had a few 35w OPT's fail (I am pretty sure they were Heybor's not positive though) and quite a few Bassman powers that were a little noisy...But nothing catastrophic!!...Also Henry... MM 35 watt blackface style output X formers do sound noticeably better than the Heybors version that I can say with confidence.. The Bassman and 100 watt Twins MM not so much.. Sorry just remembered that tid bit..


Tony VVT

[heisthl]

Thanks - I'm more interested in the PT reliability - any failures?

[greiswig]

(SNIP)Also Henry... MM 35 watt blackface style output X formers do sound noticeably better than the Heybors version that I can say with confidence.. The Bassman and 100 watt Twins MM not so much.. Sorry just remembered that tid bit.. Tony VVT

Tony, I'm honestly curious about this: how do you know when you've got enough of a sampling of transformers that you can attribute a difference in sound to the transformer, rather than to any of the other parts in the amp or to lead dress or tubes or...? In other words, unless your builds and all their individual components other than the transformers are really consistent from one to the next, how would you know to attribute a quality to the transformer and not to something else? The only thing I can think of is that you would have to do the builds, put Brand A transformer in them all, then sub in Brand B and make the assessment. Is that what you mean?

[heisthl]

The ouput transformer difference can be heard - I've tested this in the same amp as well as in runs of the same topologies - The MM is worth the extra bucks.

[talbany]

Sure
Since we started I guess 7 years or so we've put out close to 500 amps of all different types... Fender style combos and heads, Marshall styles, our own channel switcher designs, D-style, single ended amps.. Both turret and eyelet board amps and our PC board amps done on steel and aluminum chassis..I have to test and voice every amp that leaves here including repairs.. I am not saying this makes me all knowing by any stretch Please!!! I wouldn't presume with the talent on this board is staggering.. After several years of doing this everyday you will just begin to draw your on conclusions over various designs and different components over time that's it. Just my opinion!!
It's not based on any scientific evidence just the hands and ears.. Your results may be different and that's cool that's what I love about the forum everyone can compare results and use it to draw upon own signature tone..

Henry
No power transformer failures to speak of.. Actually the Heybors seem to run a bit cooler than the MM..


Tony VVT

[greiswig]

Tony,

Numbers like that, I'd trust your opinion! Thanks for the detailed response. I think it's going to be a looooong time before I'm able to make statements like that, but I love finding out how you guys who actually do this well develop your opinions.

Muchas Gracias!

[heisthl]

Henry
No power transformer failures to speak of.. Actually the Heybors seem to run a bit cooler than the MM..


Tony VVT

I think so too - that's why I was curious about failures - I would think the MM PTs might suffer more over the long run.