Weber Speakers is it me!!!

[talbany]

Here is an issue I've been hesitant in sharing with everyone as I like to refrain from talking bad about a supplier.. Especially one as nice as Ted has been to me.. However constantly bumping up against the issue thought I would throw the bone in the ring and see if others have this issue or if someone close to the Weber camp can jump in..
Many of our earlier amps came stock with Weber's'.. I very clearly remember those early amps sounding wonderful and getting consistently good reviews.. Now that those amps have had some time to wear a bit they have been slowly trickling in for upgrades or tubes etc...In virtually every amp that has returned the speaker is either rubbing or ratty sounding...
When we made the switch to Eminence several years ago when we were consistently getting in some rough sounding speakers from Ted..Un successful in resolving the issues made the switch..
After talking with Ken Fisher about the issues he said Weber's were built to very tight tolerances so any shock to the speaker causing a slight shift in the position of the magnet..can result in the issues we were having..
Anyone else experiencing these types of issues with the Weber's or is it just me....Thanks for playing!!!


Tony VVT

[jaysg]

Shrinking gap tolerances is a risk they take, along with recommending light or no doping. Imo, they're promoting speakers that will need to be replaced or reconed often, under heavy use. If you understand and accept that, it's okay, assuming you really like the tone. It's kind of like not finishing maple necks because you like the feel. As long as you accept that you may have to replace the neck periodically, there's reason to finish it at all.

I believe people like Eric Clapton and Santana blow speakers and have them reconed on a regular basis, instead of using 200W EVs. (which EC did do for a while, fwiw)

[greiswig]

I've got a couple of Blue Dog AlNiCo's that I bought nearly 10 years ago. They're rated at around 18 watts. I put one of them in my 30W Bad Cat, and put a fuse in series just in case. But as hard as I've pushed that amp, the speaker has always sounded great. I actually prefer it in that amp to a Celestion Blue, because it is a little less sibilant in the high end.

I've not had issues with other speakers from them, either, and they've always stood behind what they sold me even in cases where they could easily have argued that I abused the speaker beyond its design intent.

YMMV,

[BobW]

After talking with Ken Fisher about the issues he said Weber's were built to very tight tolerances so any shock to the speaker causing a slight shift in the position of the magnet..can result in the issues we were having..

Talbany, are all the mounting screws torqued approximately the same? Maybe the basket has deformed slightly, and w/ a tight tolerance gap, rubbing could result? ...just a thought

[Structo]

So Weber uses tight tolerances and no or light doping.

I believe the doping is an optional item that can be skipped or applied light, medium or heavy right?

But if the magnet is shifting int transport when it is in a cab or combo, that seems to be a design issue where either magnet is not glued well enough or perhaps the gap is so narrow that it doesn't take much for it to rub.

I haven't ever used a Weber but a lot of people sure seem to think they are great speakers.

Speakers that use stamped steel baskets have got to be more prone to warping due to unequal torquing of the screws.
Or if the baffle is not perfectly flat it could cause cone distortion.

I usually fell into the cheap speaker category because I never had the bucks for high quality spkrs.

But I do know in my heart and mind that speakers in a guitar amp or Hi Fi system are easily half or better of the sound quality equation.

The EVM 12L is the best speaker I have ever bought as it well should be at $195 each, but the quality of construction of that speaker is phenomenal.
With a massive cast basket frame, this speaker should last a life time.

[talbany]

Thanks everyone for the comments..In general I have always wanted to like the Webers for a Fender replacement are nice speakers..
Bob.. I am aware of bolt torque especially w/the 15's and do check to make sure every amp the leaves here has no speaker issues..The issues I am speaking of are mainly directed tword the Alnicos in general.. the 12 dont seem to be as bad as the 15' after about 2 years of use.... Just about all of the 15' have issues and needed to be replaced.. The 12's dont seem to be as bad.. about 1/2 of the 12's Iv'e gotten back still sound solid...The ceramics do seem to hold up a bit better...Maybe to the average player the anomolies may be over looked... I am real sensative to any speaker related issues..(Uneven break up in the top end, loss of low end.. etc...). The 15's were the higher powered ones that seem to be the worst...Thanks again!!

Tony VVT

[rooster]

OK, here's something else and in regard to 15" speakers.

At one time I was talking speakers with a PA Sound/Rental company guy. He was probably one of the most anal guys you could meet in regard to sound systems, room coverage, freq range, outdoor coverage, time delays - you name it - this guy knew a lot o'shite.

Anyway, one day we got into talking 15s, JBLs, EVs, PAS, whatever, and he said something that struck me as rather odd because I had never heard anybody talk about such a thing. He said that they rotated the 15s 180 degrees once every year. When I asked him why he did this he said, 'Well, that's a lot of paper and it will warp. If you turn them 180 degrees every year, then the paper has a better chance to recover.'
?? It made a lot of sense, not that I went out and did it to my mains cabs ever, but in the ten years since that conversation I keep waiting for those EVs to go south........... I've been warned if it does!

But getting back to your Ted story and the 15s, all I can think about is what that guy told me, you know? A good gtr speaker is going to have some pretty thin paper if its to be any good, right? In the wrong climate like the SE, I could see this coming into play.

I personally like his Silver Bells and Blue Dogs, alnico in general. But I don't run any 15s so you are in a different camp. Also, I did learn one thing IMPORTANT about the Ted thing: There are TWO Teds, the Sr. and the Jr.. The Jr. is the guy who has a temper and can be really off the wall sometimes. One time, in fact, he actually said that I was "his very worst customer". ??? . I responded with the fact that I had only had maybe 20 recones done in five years and had complaints about two of those - and here he had doped them when I had asked for 'no dope'. For this I was his very worst customer? I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I can laugh now but it was f'd up, you know? Oh, he also told me at the time that he wouldn't do any more reconing for me!!! ........................So long story short, I came to find out that it was the Jr. that was sending me these emails. The Sr. is a different guy altogether, and yes, I still do business with the company.

So you probably know this then, but maybe somebody else here doesn't: Watch out of the Jr.!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bob-I]

Also, I did learn one thing IMPORTANT about the Ted thing: There are TWO Teds, the Sr. and the Jr.. The Jr. is the guy who has a temper and can be really off the wall sometimes. One time, in fact, he actually said that I was "his very worst customer". ??? .

I've had run in's with TA as well. I've had promises of delivery for months and nothing. I got pissed off and make some statements on forums that they took offence to, then refused orders from me. That's fine with me, I'm just a hobbiest and if they can't tell me the truth about deliverys then I can use different vendors. I don't understand how a customer service business can refuse customers orders.

[talbany]

Rotating 15's huh!! Never heard of that one...
In Weber's defence could you imagine the all the BS you have to put up with if you sold amp kits as well as speakers everyone has their bad days..However cutting someone off for offering up their opinion on a forum is a bit much..
Yeah!! the 3 sometimes 4 week turnaround time was another reason why we switched nothing worse than holding back amps cause your waiting on speakers.. I call Eminence and Pow!! 3 days later your stocked!!!

Tony VVT

[Bob-I]

Yeah!! the 3 sometimes 4 week turnaround time was another reason why we switched
Tony VVT

3-4 weeks I'd have accepted. What got to me was the 3 month wait for cabinets AFTER the kits were not only delivered, but completed. I read many folks on the forums why got their kits complete months before I got my cabs. My comment was that they'd already pissed me off so why piss off someone else.

Not well known but this is a common practice in the airline industry. Example.

2 flights leaving out of the same airport, one at 6:00 and one at 8:00. Both incoming planes are late. The plane for the 6:00 flight comes in at 7:30. Often that plane will be reassigned the 8:00 flight so that it will go off on time, screw the 6:00 people, they'll get the plane that's already late for the 8:00. So the 8:00 is on time, the 6:00 is 4 hours late.

The reason, on-time departures are tracked, but once it's late it's late, they don't track HOW late. By sending off the 8:00 on time they've improved the on-time record.

I've seen this on flights going to the same destination!

[roknroll]

I to have had a run in with him/them. I became so frustrated at the time I decided to print out the emails just to show people how ridiculous the whole thing became. After many weeks of waiting, he would reply that he was going to look in to the matter and get back to me tomorrow or later, meanwhile a week later I would have heard nothing. Numerous promises of resolution to the problem went on and on in the emails. This went on for 2 months plus till I finally had it, after all, the items were already payed for. It escalated in to him getting very nasty in the emails and I demanded a refund and will not do business with them anymore.
If it is the "son", DAD should dump him.
Having been in business my whole life and handling problems with the public, I completely understand what goes on, however, sometimes you need to look at a situation and ask yourself if the attitude the customer is taking is warranted or not. Sometimes it is YOU and not THEM.
regards

[talbany]

I know that Ted has an illness associated with his lungs and for a while was on oxygen...He could work for only several hours at a time so his son pretty much ran things when it got bad for him...As far as the best companies who get things right out the same or next day are

Mouser
Mcmaster Carr
Dave-Avatar... Great guy!!!!!!
Mercury Magnetics
Eminence
New Sensor-- Not bad...East Coast
Mojo---Could be a little faster not bad
CE Dist.. To slow
Weber -To Slow

This is my experience yours may vary

Tony VVT

[heisthl]

I know that Ted has an illness associated with his lungs and for a while was on oxygen...He could work for only several hours at a time so his son pretty much ran things when it got bad for him...As far as the best companies who get things right out the same or next day are

Mouser
Mcmaster Carr
Dave-Avatar... Great guy!!!!!!
Mercury Magnetics
Eminence
New Sensor-- Not bad...East Coast
Mojo---Could be a little faster not bad
CE Dist.. To slow
Weber -To Slow

This is my experience yours may vary

Tony VVT

I would add:
Doug's tubes
BOI audioworks
Angela Instruments
to the good list
and CE Distributing too, I don't know why you had a problem with them.
Being in Arizona I always get my order the next day from them via normal UPS, It's really amazing.
What do you think about Heyboer? It's usually about 3 weeks for me.

[Structo]

I've don't quite a bit of business with Antique Electronic Supply which is the retail side of CE.

I've always gotten my stuff within a few days of ordering.

Not sure how closely CE and AES are associated and I have not ordered from CE since I don't have a business.

Doug Hoffman gets a huge nod also for very fast shipping.

[talbany]

CE Dist.. Always takes at least 10 days.. That's if I'm lucky...
This I don't understand... I get things from Avatar and Mercury faster than CE who is in Arizona... Splain it.. I can't.. On the average CE=2weeks...I would LOVE!!!! to get stuff from CE in 2 days...
I would order all my tubes and many other items from them but 2 weeks for me is an eternity...Doug is fast and a great guy.. but too rich for my blood.. I used to buy transformers from him Ironrite's but get most of them from Paul now..and a few Heybor replacements from Mojo..Pretty good bang for the buck...Steve at Angela is a great guy as well he even sells our Fralins..His parts Too rich for me as well.. If I get in a pinch I order from him since he's about an hour away...I have never ordered anything direct from Heybor...For me the tone of their transformers are kind of all over the place
I think the quality and consistency is a touch better at Mercury...I'll pay a few extra bucks more for the Constancy...We also get to assign a Model # for our different transformers so only I can purchase them...Helps with the warranty...



Tony VVT