Rocket or Express?????

[CapnCrunch]

Hi all....

I am a relative newby here. I've been enjoying reading posts for a month or so and am now asking for some advice. I have read most of the posts dealing with the differences between the various TW's. I've really loved the thread with Derek Ferwerda and my tendency is to gravitate toward the Rocket. So here's my dilemna. I have a 65 Amps London head and matching 2x12 cab. It has two separate amps in one head a Vox ac15 and Marshall 18 watt. I gig mainly with a MIJ Strat and a Les Paul Classic with Jason Lollar Imperial HB's.

I became interested in the Trainwrecks by reading about them over at the 18 watt forum. I am really looking for a higher gain amp because I do a lot of single note lead stuff and harmonies along with the vocalist. I've listened to Glen's videos on You tube and the sound he gets with his Express is awesome. The questions I have are these. How attainable is that organic flowing molten overdrive that he gets? Second, would a Rocket be significantly different then the AC 15 side of my London, and how would it compare in gain. The other issue is feel.......

[RJ Guitars]

Captain,

Your research looks pretty solid, and it seems that you know the facts on both the amps in question. Some of us here were kinda thinking that Rocket was a rhythm amp before Derek's thread started. Then he blew that idea out of the water.

I am an ambassador for the Rocket amp because I love mine. They seem to be a friendly and simple build and so far very few builders have said anything bad about them. There are a bunch of flavors out there with the most pure one going back to Allyn's build.

If you get a chance, look up a Rocket thread by "Fishy". He's got some clips that are pretty killer. It's one of my all time favorites. There have also been a bunch of new builds showing up lately with some good sounding clips.

My suggestion - build them both (the Rocket first of course). I say build the Rocket first partly because of my prejudice, but also, it's a friendlier build than the Express. In any case, you've got great help here on this forum with any Wreck build.

Fine Print Disclaimer - These comments are worth the price paid for them...

rj

[Aurora]

RJ... thanks - almost just what I neeed too..
I hope this is not concidered thread jacking...
but how would you describe the Liverpool in this context?
( I've been slowly leaning towards Dana's Rocketpool.....)

[pureoldsound]

Hi all....
I am really looking for a higher gain amp because I do a lot of single note lead stuff and harmonies along with the vocalist.

Express no questions....

I've listened to Glen's videos on You tube and the sound he gets with his Express is awesome. The questions I have are these. How attainable is that organic flowing molten overdrive that he gets?

Again Express...How attainable, well there are several factors. First the type of built you choose. What I mean is using the appropriate PT and PT, componets, lead dress etc.....second who builds the amp, not that the sound or the amp as a whole can't be replicated but from different hads yield different results. You can do a search and you'll find people will get some very cool results of that circuit. The amp is a very simple layout not that much componets in it. That said you really have to know and understand it to get the best out of it. It is not just putting the pieces together. There is no myth or magic dust in it is just understanding..

Second, would a Rocket be significantly different then the AC 15 side of my London, and how would it compare in gain. The other issue is feel.......

The Rocket is an AC30 top boost....dig out the schems of the top boost and compare it to the Rocket it's the same thing.

[pureoldsound]

Forgot to add..The most important factor, tube selction...The express and I think all the TW amps are very sensitive to the type of tube you use...V1 in the Express is KEY...as for the obvious, guitar, pups, speaker cabs and your hands will make a difference...The express is a very touch sensitive amp and for someone who does not have that smooth touch to control an amp with touch, vol and tone control (like me ) can be one trick pony.

I loved the clone I had, increadible amp built by one of our senior builders in this forum, Dana Hall (and I don't mean old I mean highly experinced)...Just in case you are lookind to have one built....If not there is plenty of info on this forum to get by and built yourself a replica....

[hairyandy]

Hi all....

I am a relative newby here. I've been enjoying reading posts for a month or so and am now asking for some advice. I have read most of the posts dealing with the differences between the various TW's. I've really loved the thread with Derek Ferwerda and my tendency is to gravitate toward the Rocket. So here's my dilemna. I have a 65 Amps London head and matching 2x12 cab. It has two separate amps in one head a Vox ac15 and Marshall 18 watt. I gig mainly with a MIJ Strat and a Les Paul Classic with Jason Lollar Imperial HB's.

I became interested in the Trainwrecks by reading about them over at the 18 watt forum. I am really looking for a higher gain amp because I do a lot of single note lead stuff and harmonies along with the vocalist. I've listened to Glen's videos on You tube and the sound he gets with his Express is awesome. The questions I have are these. How attainable is that organic flowing molten overdrive that he gets? Second, would a Rocket be significantly different then the AC 15 side of my London, and how would it compare in gain. The other issue is feel.......

I've got one of the first 65 London combos and I have an Express and a Liverpool. I say go with the Express. I've played John Speck's Rocket, Diana, and it's amazing but the Express IMO is going to be more of a lead amp and much different from the 65, especially since it's EL34. The Rocket will have WAY more gain than the 65 unless you play the 1st (Vox, EF86) channel cranked with the boost on...

Andy

[fishy]

Hey, thanks RJ.......
I wish my playing was as good as the amp

I really like the Rocket, a great all round amp that can do lead. It also takes a pedal well.

I do agree with pureoldsound on the Express with all he says. Heed the warnings. I speak from experience.

The Liverpool is also a great lead amp. Richie has posted some great clips with some killer playing. The Liverpool does not clean up as well as the Express and looses some level.
Glen has some video footage playing a Liverpool which is worth checking out.

Pete

[dartanion]

All 3 Wrecks mentioned have their own charms. I've built a few Express and Liverpool amps and just finished my first Rocket this weekend. I've done some DC30 builds too and I gotta say that for EL84s, I prefer a Liverpool. In fact, I like the Liverpool best of all 3. Granted, I haven't spent much time with the Rocket yet, but it is pretty much what I expected. Lots of chime and great mild to moderate breakup. I added a bypass cap to the second gain stage that can be switched in/out for a bit of boost. This takes it more into the Liverpool territory, but not quite the same tone as having a cold clipping stage.

If you are a pedal person, build a Rocket. If not, a Liverpool or Express.

[CapnCrunch]

Thanks for the replies all.

I was hoping someone might be familiar with the London and be able to compare the Vox side of the amp to the Rocket. I had heard that the Rocket was very similar to an ac30 but with a different pre-amp. My thoughts were that I would probably love the Rocket, but that it probably would not be that much different from my London on the Vox channel. Thanks to Hairyandy for the response, you pretty much said what I suspected.

Ideally, I would like to build a Rocket and then build an Express, and then gut my Deluxe Reverb RI and put an ODS in it, but talking the wife into just one more amp is going to be difficult until I get rid of one or two So, I think I will forge ahead with the Express.

[CapnCrunch]

Oh BTW, I serched for a Rocket thread with clips by Fishy and could not find it. Is it just me, or is there another thread where Fishy posted clips. I tried to search all of Fishy's posts and still couldn't find it

Thanks

Dee

[pureoldsound]

Here you go: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... cket+clips

I did some very bad ones: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... cket+clips

BTW do asearch on the net for the AC30 top boost pre-amp is the same thing as the Rocket. The only differnce is the 22uf bypass cap on V2 IIRC that it is omitted on the Rocket...You can add a sw to bring the cap in and out....

[dartanion]

I've played the 65 London a few times and while it's a well built amp that sounds good, it just wasn't all that to me. I'd probably tweak it to my tastes anyway. Probably nothing that a good set up tubes and minor tweaks couldn't cure.

The big differences here is that the AC30/DC30/London are all multi-channel amps and to me this is almost always a compromise. The Rocket is a single channel hot-rodded AC30. It has more gain than most would imagine and with minor tweaks like a bypassed cathode on the second gain stage adds a lot of gain and makes it more agressive. It doesn't sound like a Liverpool or Express, but does sound killer.

[Kregg]

I'm pretty new to the TW scene ... I like every one I've heard so far.
I plan on building an Express, a Rocket, then a Liverpool (in that order). For what it's worth, the Rocket uses EL84s, but, the Express gives you a choice between EL34s or 6V6s.

[RJ Guitars]

Lots of good info on this thread... I have to say that building all three seems like a reasonable thing to do. Getting the blessing of your wife well that's another issue.

rj

[dartanion]

UPDATE:

I got the reverb dialed in now on my Rocket and am digging it. I'll be testing it out tomorrow at rehearsal and hope to get some clips soon. Gotta mount it in it's cab now.