Express with 6v6's
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Express with 6v6's
With 6v6's in the power section what kind of volume can be expected from this amp? Volume wise is it somewhere in the neighborhood of a Deluxe or Boogie .22 caliber? With these power tubes can it work alongside say a 50 watt marshall without running out of headroom? Will it clean up and still be heard with a heavy handed drummer with this power section? Just a few questions.
Re: Express with 6v6's
You have to consider the speakers in this equation. With a 4x12 cab it would certainly keep up with a 50 W marshall. Not as clean though. not as much ummph but I could do it. It would depend alot on the efficiency rating of the speakers compared to what the Marshall was using. If your speakers are 3 db more efficient than the marshall's you might even be louder.
Re: Express with 6v6's
An Express with 6v's in it is not much less volume than the 34's. Headroom is another issue. I don't think you will get the headroom you are looking for judging by your description. FWIW I don't like the Express with 6v's. It loses too much of it's charachter for me. I prefer the 34's in my amps. Just my $.02!
MOD Edit! - I removed the dup thread!
MOD Edit! - I removed the dup thread!
Last edited by HeeBGB on Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Express with 6v6's
It will be a 2X12 cabinet with Greenback's one a 71' and the other a 77' wired in parallel.
Re: Express with 6v6's
Ok, which current EL34's in production will produce sound characteristics that will come close to duplicating the sound of an original "Wreck". This also goes for preamp tubes as well.
Re: Express with 6v6's
dmouse - I posted a clip on the post 'Hammond 1650G OT' - you'll find it. I have a 6V6 Express with a 25 watt Hammond OT - the sound clip - and an Express with all TS trannys and Seimens EL34s.
The clip finds my Volume control @ 11 o'clock into a 2/12 Vox cab that has a kinda swiss cheese-like ported back, not a true closed back cab, in other words, with Weber alnicos.
I prefer this smaller wattage head to the larger version because it is loud enough for any gig I run into including outdoors. And for that matter, I have a Marshall 4/12 cab that puts out a little more oomph maybe if I think I need it.
I tried to run the 6V6s with the bigger head, but, eh, the OT didn't seem to like them as much as the EL34s. These are J/J 6V6s, BTW.
I have a pedalboard that I use for OD sounds, etc., and I am a blues guy, not into metal. What I want the amp to to is have this kind of 'on the edge' clean sound, and then push it off with the pedals. As to headroom, man, this is so subjective!! Listen to that Bonamassa clip on youtube - what he calls 'clean' is like total OD to me. Eh. So your mileage will vary.
The larger EL34 driven head is very cool, and kinda controllable, but because it sounds good, I tend to start turning it up after a bit. And then everybody starts turning up,,, and then I turn up again,,, and then they turn up,,, So to me its about the sweet spot vs. the bandmates idea of proper volume, I guess. I try to get along, you know?
The clip finds my Volume control @ 11 o'clock into a 2/12 Vox cab that has a kinda swiss cheese-like ported back, not a true closed back cab, in other words, with Weber alnicos.
I prefer this smaller wattage head to the larger version because it is loud enough for any gig I run into including outdoors. And for that matter, I have a Marshall 4/12 cab that puts out a little more oomph maybe if I think I need it.
I tried to run the 6V6s with the bigger head, but, eh, the OT didn't seem to like them as much as the EL34s. These are J/J 6V6s, BTW.
I have a pedalboard that I use for OD sounds, etc., and I am a blues guy, not into metal. What I want the amp to to is have this kind of 'on the edge' clean sound, and then push it off with the pedals. As to headroom, man, this is so subjective!! Listen to that Bonamassa clip on youtube - what he calls 'clean' is like total OD to me. Eh. So your mileage will vary.
The larger EL34 driven head is very cool, and kinda controllable, but because it sounds good, I tend to start turning it up after a bit. And then everybody starts turning up,,, and then I turn up again,,, and then they turn up,,, So to me its about the sweet spot vs. the bandmates idea of proper volume, I guess. I try to get along, you know?
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: Express with 6v6's
Thanks for the info on the Hammond xformer. This gives me some things to ponder on what exactly it is that I want to do. I read the information on playing with the bias settings to get the sound you are looking for. What preamp tubes and PI were you using on your 25 watter? Is this your gigging amp ?
Re: Express with 6v6's
dmouse - Yes, it is my main amp right now. This is because I love how it deals with the gtr, not because I don't have other amps. Most guys here run things hotter in the bias department but I run mine @ 27mas or close to it. I just want a bit more headroom than I would have at, say 35mas.
V1 is a Tungram, V2 is a smooth plate Mullard, and V3 is a NOS GE. The Tungsram is a good thing, as people here will tell you. Eventually I will do a sound clip at the typical 2 o'clock on the Volume pot. Really, either amp reacts the same way - as you turn up past 11 o'clock, the amp picks up a bit more gain and then levels off at 12 o'clock-ish with anything above that just saturating more. Kind of like a big OD pedal but with tubes. Eh, yeah, maybe in fairness I should say that the EL34 version reacts the same way but might have a bit more gain before it levels off and just saturates. The EL34 version is significantly louder, no doubt!!!
As far as I can see, when it comes to using this amp, I think you either have a go at things with an OD pedal and turn the amp volume down, or you try to cop the Glen thing by turning up the amp and working the shite out of the gtr volume(s) and tone knob(s). I still have to use the gtr volume knob (even using the OD pedal) but not as much as Glen does. I mean, the rythmn section of a song has to be relatively clean for the music I play. .........So I will still adjust the gtr volume depending on what I am doing. But Glen is all over the map relative to me.
OK, hope this helps. One thing for sure, and don't lose sight of this? Speakers are everything with this amp somehow. To sound really great, the amp needs really great sounding speakers.
V1 is a Tungram, V2 is a smooth plate Mullard, and V3 is a NOS GE. The Tungsram is a good thing, as people here will tell you. Eventually I will do a sound clip at the typical 2 o'clock on the Volume pot. Really, either amp reacts the same way - as you turn up past 11 o'clock, the amp picks up a bit more gain and then levels off at 12 o'clock-ish with anything above that just saturating more. Kind of like a big OD pedal but with tubes. Eh, yeah, maybe in fairness I should say that the EL34 version reacts the same way but might have a bit more gain before it levels off and just saturates. The EL34 version is significantly louder, no doubt!!!
As far as I can see, when it comes to using this amp, I think you either have a go at things with an OD pedal and turn the amp volume down, or you try to cop the Glen thing by turning up the amp and working the shite out of the gtr volume(s) and tone knob(s). I still have to use the gtr volume knob (even using the OD pedal) but not as much as Glen does. I mean, the rythmn section of a song has to be relatively clean for the music I play. .........So I will still adjust the gtr volume depending on what I am doing. But Glen is all over the map relative to me.
OK, hope this helps. One thing for sure, and don't lose sight of this? Speakers are everything with this amp somehow. To sound really great, the amp needs really great sounding speakers.
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: Express with 6v6's
I just gigged my little 6v6 1x12 combo, TW inspired, with a full band. Sax, Harmonica, Bass, heavy handed drummer, vocalist. Club was maybe 2-300 persons.
Not much clean headroom , but what a joy, cut through when ever I needed. I had the amp at around 9-10 o'clock, tones straight up and no presense. Actually was the perfect size, we were pretty loud.
I have the JAN 6v6's biased at 20 ma and run the plate voltage at 400 + .
12at7 rca PI. I had a nice bugleboy in the V1 but it got a little rattley so I stuck a cheap JJ and it was noise free. The tone did suffer a bit, but at the levels we were at you would never no. Sustain for days and sweet harmonics.
They kept asking what pedal I was using, I just worked the volume on my guitar, A duesenberg.
Oh, I used the 6.6k output tap, 5.2k might not sound as good for the 6v6.
The soundman asked me to turn down during the sound check, I just rolled the vvr to 50% and he was happy so was I. Eventually I had the vvr back up to full,
Not much clean headroom , but what a joy, cut through when ever I needed. I had the amp at around 9-10 o'clock, tones straight up and no presense. Actually was the perfect size, we were pretty loud.
I have the JAN 6v6's biased at 20 ma and run the plate voltage at 400 + .
12at7 rca PI. I had a nice bugleboy in the V1 but it got a little rattley so I stuck a cheap JJ and it was noise free. The tone did suffer a bit, but at the levels we were at you would never no. Sustain for days and sweet harmonics.
They kept asking what pedal I was using, I just worked the volume on my guitar, A duesenberg.
Oh, I used the 6.6k output tap, 5.2k might not sound as good for the 6v6.
The soundman asked me to turn down during the sound check, I just rolled the vvr to 50% and he was happy so was I. Eventually I had the vvr back up to full,
Re: Express with 6v6's
billyz - Hey. I didn't know you had a 6V6 wreck goin on, nice. What is the single 12 that you are running? Closed back or open? I have been talking to Jim at Scumback and he seems to think that I might appreciate the H75 for a single 12. I like my 2/12 box but there are those times when I think a lightweight box and a single 12 might be OK.
20 ma is pretty light, BTW. I run at 26 ma and even though this is hotter than you, we would still be in the minority here. Eh, could be wrong. But I do understand the need for a little headroom, Amen.
20 ma is pretty light, BTW. I run at 26 ma and even though this is hotter than you, we would still be in the minority here. Eh, could be wrong. But I do understand the need for a little headroom, Amen.
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: Express with 6v6's
Dana has a couple of the 6v6 express amps built,maybe he can post a pic and some info..
Re: Express with 6v6's
You can check it out in this thread.Richie wrote:Dana has a couple of the 6v6 express amps built,maybe he can post a pic and some info..
https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?p=73144#73144
Re: Express with 6v6's
Richie - Yeah, thanks. I also was reading the VVR post in the other forum. I just learned that Dana is your brother, actually. That's good to know.
So OK, since I have you here, Dana, how are these combos behaving? They look very cool, but is the TW circuit and a 6V6 combo a good match? Running 6V6s in the Express circuit is something I like to do and, frankly, here I appreciate the head idea. Also, what 6V6s do you like for these combos? Have you found something that sounds good and is also rugged?
On this note, do you know that Eurotubes has a J/J 6L6 that is produced especially for them that uses double mica spacers for less tube shake? Just a thought that if a combo Express is the plan, and 6V6s aren't up to the task, there are always those J/J 6L6s. They are very robust and take one heck of a beating in a couple of my combos.
Anyway, now addressing billyz, I forgot that I did see a pic of your amp in the post where Dane displays his combos. Too, I forgot that you are running a Weber Silver Bell. Is this a 50 watter? Have you tried the higher wattage version?
So OK, since I have you here, Dana, how are these combos behaving? They look very cool, but is the TW circuit and a 6V6 combo a good match? Running 6V6s in the Express circuit is something I like to do and, frankly, here I appreciate the head idea. Also, what 6V6s do you like for these combos? Have you found something that sounds good and is also rugged?
On this note, do you know that Eurotubes has a J/J 6L6 that is produced especially for them that uses double mica spacers for less tube shake? Just a thought that if a combo Express is the plan, and 6V6s aren't up to the task, there are always those J/J 6L6s. They are very robust and take one heck of a beating in a couple of my combos.
Anyway, now addressing billyz, I forgot that I did see a pic of your amp in the post where Dane displays his combos.
Too, I forgot that you are running a Weber Silver Bell. Is this a 50 watter? Have you tried the higher wattage version?Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: Express with 6v6's
Dana - Oh yeah, one more thing? Are you biasing in the 26 ma range, or hotter? Thanks.
Most people stall out when fixing a mistake that they've made. Why?
Re: Express with 6v6's
I used 20ma for the 6v6 based on 12w plate dissipation at 400 VDC on the plate. It sounded very good there and the tubes are not being stressed much. I actually calc'd 21ma.
If I use 14w then at 70% the MA setting would rise to 24 ma. Still in the ballpark. I used to run them balls to the Wall, but, I am slowing down as I get older ( wiser ? ).
I used the Weber Silver Bell 50W Alnico. Broken in on my Filament transformer and a little acetone. open back. I think Alnico's like an open back. I have used a Scumback H75 and it sounded good too, more agressive, louder, punchier low end not as sweet though.
I just heard some feedback from the gig and after I left everyone was commenting on the Great tone I got.
I earlier tried some 6v6's in another build but with the 5.2 K ot tap and did not like it as much. El34's sounded very good though at 5.2K load.
If I use 14w then at 70% the MA setting would rise to 24 ma. Still in the ballpark. I used to run them balls to the Wall, but, I am slowing down as I get older ( wiser ? ).
I used the Weber Silver Bell 50W Alnico. Broken in on my Filament transformer and a little acetone. open back. I think Alnico's like an open back. I have used a Scumback H75 and it sounded good too, more agressive, louder, punchier low end not as sweet though.
I just heard some feedback from the gig and after I left everyone was commenting on the Great tone I got.
I earlier tried some 6v6's in another build but with the 5.2 K ot tap and did not like it as much. El34's sounded very good though at 5.2K load.