Liverpool v Express?

[nee]

I glean from my readings on this board that the Liverpool is "less gainy" than the Express. Could someone explain why this is so, given that the preamp circuitry is almost identical? The values of the PI componentry are different - is this it?

Many thanks!

IanG

[tubedogsmith]

The treble cap in the pool cuts mids and perceived gain and also as you mentioned the PI cathode gives less push on the output stage and also bumps the lows a bit. Depending on what you use for the grid dropper on V2 that has an impact on the overall distortion sound as well as it's generally a smaller resistor in a pool.

[geetarpicker]

Truly with my experience with both (originals) the difference in gain between the two is small. If you swapped just one 12AY7 into either you could make that amp the one with lower gain. I posted some clips on youtube of my original Liverpool, and they are almost gainier than my Express ones with the volume set only slightly higher (maybe) than my typical Express settings. It seems after the 2nd stage more of the signal is shunted to ground on the Liverpool than the Express, but in true operation most folks would be suprised at how gainy and similar both amps are in the gain department.

[mlp-mx6]

Truly with my experience with both (originals) the difference in gain between the two is small. ... but in true operation most folks would be suprised at how gainy and similar both amps are in the gain department.

Not that anyone necessarily cares, but after studying the schematics a bit, that is exactly why I chose to make my next 'Wreck build a Rocket. My Express implementation has that tone well covered, methinks. I'm looking forward to hearing the lower-gain 'Wreck tone next! Based on the clips I've heard, I think I'm really going to dig it. Riding that edge of overdrive is tons of fun.