Landmines or crickets

[Fischerman]

Somehow I missed this thread but there was an interesting comment in it that went something like; "Apart from the goop thing, Dumble also put a few other landmines in his amps that makes it very difficult to copy part for part anyway.".

Anybody have any ideas what that means?

I have a feeling it's gonna be crickets but...gotta ask!

[Normster]

I recall reading in HAD's interview that "even if you took my amp apart you couldn't tell how I did it" or some such thing. Reminds me of a story I heard long ago about a Japanese company that decided to clone a Steinway. They bought the piano, disassembled it, duplicated all the parts, and built their clone. It sounded like ass. To recoup their losses, they reassembled the Steinway for sale, but it sounded just as bad as their clone.

I truly regard HAD as a pioneer in the cascading gain stage frontier, but I also believe that other amp builders have refined the concept beyond where Howard left off. Hats off to many of the builders on this site who have created their own niches by treating the Dumble design as an inspiration rather than a sacred blueprint.

I know I've said this before, but it's still fitting... "don't seek to imitate the master, seek what the master sought."

Damn, that sounded mighty preachy, didn't it?

[Structo]

Good post Norm

[ayan]

I truly regard HAD as a pioneer in the cascading gain stage frontier, but I also believe that other amp builders have refined the concept beyond where Howard left off. Hats off to many of the builders on this site who have created their own niches by treating the Dumble design as an inspiration rather than a sacred blueprint.

Hi Norm,

I appreciate your post and I am sincerely curious to know who you feel has perfected the art beyond Dumble's achievements? You know me, so you can rest assured I'm not trolling.

Gil

[Fischerman]

Hats off to many of the builders on this site who have created their own niches by treating the Dumble design as an inspiration rather than a sacred blueprint.

Why thank you! Although I didn't create a niche...I've been one of the loudest 'don't clone...create' 'preachers on this forum. I remember when I first came here I was given access to files and files of real Dumble pics by a very generous member...I looked at a few but that was it. Most I never even looked at. That's just not what interests me. But when i saw that 'landmine' statement I thought it would be a great opportunity to learn something (my thinking is that he wouldn't go to the trouble without good reason...and expectation of it working).

When I read your post I assumed you meant AF and CA (aka AP). But I didn't take the word 'beyond' to mean that they 'improved' upon it...more like they took it in a slightly different direction (i.e. more like 'branched out'). amirite?

[Normster]

I truly regard HAD as a pioneer in the cascading gain stage frontier, but I also believe that other amp builders have refined the concept beyond where Howard left off. Hats off to many of the builders on this site who have created their own niches by treating the Dumble design as an inspiration rather than a sacred blueprint.

Hi Norm,

I appreciate your post and I am sincerely curious to know who you feel has perfected the art beyond Dumble's achievements? You know me, so you can rest assured I'm not trolling.

Gil

That would be "refined" rather than "perfected."

Two examples that come to mind are Andy Fuchs and Gary Johnson. Andy because he mass produced the circuit and delivered very consistent results. No small feat IMHO. Gary because his amps sound spectacular to these old ears. I've only played through one Dumble (using Scott's Baker) and I didn't like it as much as the Glaswerks or the Fuchs that were in the same room. That said, it's hardly fair for me to judge based on one experience with one Dumble. (Chuck D'Aloia came away with a completely different opinion. He thought the Dumble was head and shoulders above the other two.)

Truth is Gil, if I had to back up that assertion, I'd probably have to withdraw it.

[ayan]

Two examples that come to mind are Andy Fuchs and Gary Johnson. Andy because he mass produced the circuit and delivered very consistent results. No small feat IMHO. Gary because his amps sound spectacular to these old ears. I've only played through one Dumble (using Scott's Baker) and I didn't like it as much as the Glaswerks or the Fuchs that were in the same room. That said, it's hardly fair for me to judge based on one experience with one Dumble. (Chuck D'Aloia came away with a completely different opinion. He thought the Dumble was head and shoulders above the other two.)

Truth is Gil, if I had to back up that assertion, I'd probably have to withdraw it.

Gotcha and gotcha.

G.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Appreciate the kind words guys. Honestly, I've grown tired of HAD's silliness with this kind of talk. I think Gil related a story from LA, while on line to see Carlton. The big man was also online, talking with someone about his "designs". He basically said something like "people may know what I did, but will never know why I did it..." or some similar drivel. He thinks alot of himself, but I think phrases like that are meant to fan the flames of all this "magic" voodoo he claims to impart to what he builds.....nothing new under the sun, (or under the goop for that matter. He's now pretty much underground (no, not dead...) btw. Most D-owners have lost interest in his silliness and moved on.

[ayan]

Most D-owners have lost interest in his silliness and moved on.

I belive that is a fair statement to make. RF is still a faithful client, but other than that, I'm not sure who else hasn't looked elsewhere already. Still a shame, IMHO, because I am convinced that Dumble's approach to reaching the execution of things was different than the rest of ours... I'll never know for sure, I'm afraid.

Gil

[JimiB]

Sonny Landreth said he just sent one of his in to have some work done on it - his "slidewinder" IIRC.

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Sonny Landreth said he just sent one of his in to have some work done on it - his "slidewinder" IIRC.

I hope it doesn't take the 6 years (or is it longer ??). One LA studio dude is waiting for his ODS to come back from repair......

I get most repairs out of my shop is 6 hours....just sayin' lol.

[Structo]

According to my calculations HAD is around 63 years old now.

Was it Robben that had his amp serviced by HAD and when he got it back he didn't like the way it sounded?

"Electrons are always the happiest in the time/space continuum of a vacuum.
Not so in a crystal lattice structure."

[FUCHSAUDIO]

According to my calculations HAD is around 63 years old now.

Was it Robben that had his amp serviced by HAD and when he got it back he didn't like the way it sounded?

"Electrons are always the happiest in the time/space continuum of a vacuum.
Not so in a crystal lattice structure."

There was an interview with Larry and Robben (together) where the Dumble topic came up. I think they both said they "bring their amps, HAD turns all kind of adjustments insides and it's fixed". Larry said it "sounded better", and Robben said "it sounded worse..." I believe. Gil may know.

[tubedogsmith]

He must have done something cool too have a bulletin board dedicated to figuring out what makes his stuff sound the way it does, let alone all the cottage companies that sprung out trying to grab some of that forbidden fruit. You can see the progress in his designs through the years and I think it's some pretty cool stuff. Really the most interesting part of the whole thing to me. He kept changing and improving the design and it worked. Do you remember what the changes sounded like when Fender and Marshall "improved" their designs?!?! Or Gibson or most anyone else for that matter. Give the guy his due.

[Funkalicousgroove]

Actually I had a similar conversation with Larry, Robben, Sonny, and Eric Johnson a few years back at a festival in Copper, CO called Guitar Town.

Robben said his amps always sound great at Alexanders house, and when he gets them home he Hates them. Larry said the Overdrive sounds "Cheap" and he never uses it. Sonny likes to play with the trimmers himself, regardless of where alexander set them-and always plays his amp in the 1/2 power mode!

As far as land mines, I have de-gooped about 6 at this point, and been in around a dozen- There are no Land mines, and the ones that I worked on all sounded better when they left my shop than when they came in(some for maintenance, some for tweaks).

I really think Alexander is a genius, He does use certain parts in certain areas of the circuit for a reason, and the more of them i see, the more I am convinced that there is a combination of "What was readily available at the time" and the best choices of said parts for each amp. Why else would 1 amp contain 3 different Brand and Type of the same value component?

I know from people close to him that when he gets to service "Magical" amps for people (Fenders, Marshalls, selmers, voxes, etc.) he really takes time to try and figure out what makes that particular amp magical, be it lead dress, components, transformers, and the like, then he applies those ideas to his own designs.

I also think there are plenty of happy accidents in these amps as well