First Build - Express

Express, Liverpool, Rocket, Dirty Little Monster, etc.

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rawnster
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First Build - Express

Post by rawnster »

I just wanted to let you all know that I’ve been busy with my first amp build. Needless to say that this has been a learning experience. Don’t have a background in EE, or experience building electronic equipment of any type. I’m simply a longtime musician with a taste for exquisite. I’ve been intrigued by Trainwreck tones for quite a while, and thought about building one, but thought it’d WAY over my head. About a month ago I decided to take the plunge and started reading, researching and such. From the help of Ron Worley and his gracious work with the BOM and parts list, I started ordering the components.

Well, I finished the amp this past weekend and decided to fire it up last night. I had a friend come over to help. He’s built a few amps and would know where to stick the wooden probe if there was a problem. The entire startup process to about 4 hours. I made three major mistakes in the build

1. I forgot to connect the group of resistors on the PT board to the cement resistor. Just simply couldn’t get a bias reading with out it. 

2. Once I connected the cement resistor I noticed that I still wasn’t getting a bias reading on either power tubes (pin 5). After about 45 minutes analyzing and probing, I realized that I incorrectly connected the bridge wire underneath the preamp board from the bias pin. DRAT! Not good, for this mean that I had to unsolder the preamp board from the chassis. ALL of the lead connections to the pots and to the valves had to be undone. There went my pretty lead dress/ straight and beautifully bent wires. Grrrrrr.

3. After taking about an hour fixing the second issue, we fired up the amp and finally got bias readings. Success. I probed around with the meter and all seemed ok, so I plugged in my guitar to see if there was sound. OH there was sound….a loud obnoxious amounts of hiss and hum. What was very interesting was that the volume, treble, mid, and bass pots did nothing to the tone or volume. The amp was louder than crap, and sounded ridiculously bad. My friend said it sounded like the pots are being grounded incorrectly. So we probed around the pots for a while checking every connection and such. He thought it may be the bright switch, so I took it out of the system. Didn’t help at all. Took readings of all the pots and noticed that the volume pot was not reading correctly at all. We both thought it got fried somehow. So…………….I pulled the pot. Again, another procedure of pain and ugliness. Got the pot out and took another reading. What the heck, it now reads just fine….1meg. Whatever……I frustratingly put it back in the system. There goes my nice wiring job on the pots. Got it all back together, except the bright switch. I’m looking at this thing and thought, “what a piece of crap. I’ve pulled this thing apart and now it looks like crap.”

We kept looking at the preamp board and connections to the valves, looking back at the schematic. All of a sudden the issue just kind of highlighted itself. On valve 1, I had pins 1 and 6 crossed-connected to the preamp board. I was basically bypassing the tonestack. GEEZ. I looked at my work hours trying to find errors and simply couldn’t find any. Oh well.

After all that, it finally worked as expected. All the pots worked. This amp is a monster. Hardly any clean tones. Can’t turn it up past 8 oclock without it breaking up. Even so, the overdrive tones are awesome. All the sustain and drive I would ever want. Very cool.

The most difficult part of the build was figuring out how to get two 18 gauge stranded wired into a tiny pin whole (…better for a camel to go through an eye of a needle than to thread to 18 gauge stranded wires….).

A couple of issues: There’s a ton of hiss. Sounds like a steam pipe pissing out a leak. And there’s is a modest level of hum. The hum is present with the volume all the way off, and yet does not increase as the volume is increased. It kind of gets masked by the hiss as the volume increases. Any help here would be great.

Anyway, I very much appreciate Ron, Dana, Allyn, and Pete for being patient with my novice questions!

I hope these reading make sense. They don't seem right...at least in what I've read here on the forum:

b5: 278
b4: 294
b3: 312

v1: p1-208 p6-178 p9- neg1
v2: p1-266 p3-2.5 p9- neg1
v3: p1-190 p2-24 p3-38 p6-205 p7-23
v4: p3-402 p4-396 p5-neg29
v4: p3-402 p4-396 p5-neg29

These pictures were taken before I tore it all apart fixing my mistakes. :-)
[IMG:800:477]http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb15 ... ress/2.jpg[/img]
[IMG:800:571]http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb15 ... ress/4.jpg[/img]
[IMG:800:600]http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb15 ... ress/3.jpg[/img]
[IMG:800:600]http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb15 ... ress/1.jpg[/img]
[IMG:800:600]http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb15 ... ress/5.jpg[/img]
[IMG:800:428]http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb15 ... ress/6.jpg[/img]
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fishy
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by fishy »

Ron,
Thats a great looking build. Definetely something to be proud of. Have you alerted the neighbors :lol:

I think we have all made plenty of mistakes building an amp but they are great learning experiences.

You might want to swap some tubes around if you have them to see if that changes anything. Might help. Some are prone to hum and noise. V1 is extremely sensitive.

Pete
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rawnster
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by rawnster »

Thanks Pete. I've got an assortment of 12AX7s that I can try out. I did have some success earlier today dialing out some the hiss by turning down the presence. The amp's very bright; in fact doesn't really need any presence help or bright switch. At least this is the case with my Suhr telecaster.
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Allynmey
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by Allynmey »

Ron...looks great! Make sure you connect the shorter (center lug in your picture) of the input jack to the ground on the input jack. Picture looks like you have your shield to it but no ground connection. This will cause hum without the guitar plugged in.
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rawnster
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by rawnster »

Allynmey wrote:Ron...looks great! Make sure you connect the shorter (center lug in your picture) of the input jack to the ground on the input jack. Picture looks like you have your shield to it but no ground connection. This will cause hum without the guitar plugged in.
Thanks Allyn! Thanks for mentioning the jack issue. I connected the shorter jack to the ground. You're right. The hum dropped quite a bit.

There is another potential issue though. I am noticing that the power tranny is making noise. A fairly significant hum. The hum is constant whether standby is on or not, and whether or not a guitar is plugged in. Is this normal? I've not noticed this with any other amp I've owned. Any help here would be greatly appreciated.
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Ron Worley
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by Ron Worley »

Ron-

I also noticed that it appears that you do not have the bias pot wiper (center lug) connected to the grounded side of the bias caps- both the wiper and the lug opposite the bias resistor should be grounded.

Maybe you did it under the board as I and others have done. Check the layout I've added to understand what I mean if I have not been very clear...

Your workmanship is Great!! Nice job. What did you use for your pot ground buss lugs- bend wire?

You will also get rid of a LOT of noise and hum when you put the chassis cover on it and put it into the cab. I tested mine open below fluorescent lights at first and really thought I'd created a monster....

Ron
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rawnster
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by rawnster »

Hey Ron, yeah I have a wire running from the center leg of the bias pot to grounded side of the bias caps. Sorry the picture doesn't show it. It's there though. Thanks for double-checking.

You're right. This thing IS a monster. I've been playing Two-Rock Classic Type 3 for quite a while now. Love that amp, and thought it was a monster. But man, this Express build is a monster with a BAD attitude. It's very fun to play.
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Ron Worley
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by Ron Worley »

Get a 4x12 with some greenbacks in it.... and watch the fireworks....

Word I hear is that the 2 Rock is rather disappointing as compared to an Express....

RLW
mumford
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by mumford »

Did you only attach one cap to the bright switch?

Congrats! Looks a lot cleaner than mine...
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rawnster
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by rawnster »

mumford wrote:Did you only attach one cap to the bright switch?

Congrats! Looks a lot cleaner than mine...
In the pictures I had the bright switch in with two caps, as is described in the BOM. However, I took it out when troubleshooting and haven't put it back in yet.
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rawnster
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by rawnster »

Ron Worley wrote:Get a 4x12 with some greenbacks in it.... and watch the fireworks....

Word I hear is that the 2 Rock is rather disappointing as compared to an Express....

RLW
Yeah, I bet a 4x12 cab would do some major cool damage.

I've haven't played all Two-Rock models. But the Classic series is the real deal. I've not really heard a better all around amp than my Type 3...at least to me. :-)

So, is it normal for the power tranny to noticably hum? I'm using the Toneslut trannies.
dehughes
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by dehughes »

Congrats, Ron! Very cool, my friend. I can't wait to hear it.

Some PTs do indeed hum audibly. My MM Woden clone PT does this...just the way it is. So long as you're not noticing an inappropriate amount of hum in the signal, then no problem.

Thursday works for me....I'll e-mail you.

And yes, a 4x12 with Greenbacks would KILL with this amp...or H30s....Heritage H30s.....:)
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rawnster
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Re: First Build - Express

Post by rawnster »

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