any interest in Dumbleator II info?

[phsyconoodler]

Well said Tony!
I had the pleasure of seeing and playing some of your amps recently and they are fine amps to be sure.

[bnwitt]

Nice now a retard too....

I'm not a pirate or a thief as I've never sold a cloned trainwreck or a dumble amp.

By definition stealing does not require any selling.....only stealing.

Should have worn your helmet before you fell into that one...

Well dork let me further clarify. I would have had to at least built a dumble or trainwreck amp to be a thief or a pirate now wouldn't I? Just looking at schematics and layout drawings for the purpose of learning tweaking wouldn't make me a thief now would it? Looking at a ferrari is not the same as jumping into one, hot wiring it and driving it away right?

I haven't stolen anything so I don't need a helmet my friend. You shouldn't just blanket accuse people you don't know of a crime. You and your friends need to drop the hostility as it is very unbecoming. Really, church would be a good place for you to hang out whether you are religious or not. They've got a lot of good rules to live your life by in those places. Golden rules and all. However, if you don't find the time to visit one here are some simple things to think about:

ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN

Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.
Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.
Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.
And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.
Everything you need to know is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living.

Take any one of those items and extrapolate it into sophisticated adult terms and apply it to your family life or your work or government or your world and it holds true and clear and firm. Think what a better world it would be if we all - the whole world - had cookies and milk at about 3 o'clock in the afternoon and then lay down with our blankies for a nap. Or if all governments had as a basic policy to always put things back where they found them and to clean up their own mess.

And it is still true, no matter how old you are, when you go out in the world, it is best to hold hands and stick together.

[stelligan]

After seven days of this - might I interject a 4 bar hip hop reference (albeit devoid of tube guitar amp wankage)........

TURN IT UP!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh1tsN1KmJA

Let's get it crunk up in here and move on to cooking tubes and shockin' the crap out of ourselves. I can see and empathize with everyone's point of view on this thing. May I have the last word on this rift??

Peace

[heisthl]

Good one Dave - now let's hear some clips of the new amp

[stelligan]

pushy pushy...... Way off topic now. Funky out of time internet midi backer. Gotta go to bed.......

http://www.jonesin.org/Dave/crunk.mp3

More better to come in another thread. Sorry to derail.

[drz400]

First off I want to say is I hold no grunges here..I had a customer come in last week who was at the Amp Show in Jersey and was looking for a dead on Dumble type amp I referred him to Brandon.. Brandon if you want his name I'll be glad to PM it to you..I think he was a Berringer Rep..
But to all the DIY's out there thinking they can start there own amp company with just the material posted here.. You are in for a long hard road my friends..
The time it takes to build these amps and the cost..... (especially if your buying parts in small quantities) if you want to stay competitive makes this an extremely difficult market to break into.. If you don't have any connections or already have a brand name established it's virtually impossible...Those builders out there who just do clone style amps Dumble and Twrecks only enjoy it while it last's because when it ends and it will end..It's back to doing repairs..So DIY'ers out there who think they can take the info posted here and start a sucessfull amp company... Better think again
Oh and also if you plan on making a great Dumble style amp.. I hope you are also a KILLER!!! player and have a golden ear as well as know a great deal about electronics, PCB design.. Auto Cad etc..Web Design etc.. I have a Bachelors in Music theory and Classical Guitar training from George Mason as well as 30 or so years in clubs and bars.. over 2,000 gigs under me... My partner designs underwater weapons systems for the Navy(Rocket Scientist) and was a head engineer at Hughes Comm for years and even we are surprised at how difficult this market is...
I am not discouraging anyone from staking there claim just.. Be aware it's not as easy as what some people here might lead you to believe...
There's my Nickel's worth...


Tony VVT



Tony VVT Amps

What I always wonder about is liability of a garage/small builder. Even if the amp is a gift, anyone who doesnt have CE or UL inspected amps are opening themselves up to potential lawsuits. From my understanding it is easy to loose everything if you cross the wrong person who says they were zapped or someones child gets burned on a power tube on an amp that has no CE backup. My father worked at Bell Labs and was involved in UL, liabilty will take you down bigtime if your ass isnt covered. I dont think I have seen any small companies use UL or even CE. This means I hope they have liability insurance that doesnt require that. I believe it is illegal to ship product to EU without CE and ROHS compliance. Good friend is a lawyer who gave me this info.

The difference between the old and the new Product Liability directive is the fact that the consumer does not have to prove that a product has caused damage. Since the producer is liable for damage caused by a defect in his product, he has to prove that his product has not been the cause. Therefore, it is important that products are produced according to the essential requirements which are set by the product directives so that the CE Marking can be affixed. This ensures that a product complies with the minimum safety requirements and damage claims can be limited. It is not correct to say broadly that manufacturers can self-certify their products and apply the CE-Mark.

Depending on the Directive (MDD, ATEX, PED, In-Vitro MDD, etc...) your product has to comply with, and depending on the route (modules) one choses to demonstrate compliance, you MUST engage with a Notified Body prior to applying the CE-Mark to your product.
In some states and local jurisdictions, it is illegal to sell electrical items without a UL inspection and seal of approval. Even where it is not illegal, as a practical matter, no distributor or retailer will sell an electrical item without a UL logo.

[talbany]

Since you quoted me I will answer.. I know there are people out there who build amps in there basement, Garage, Kitchen Tables, Dryer's LOL!! Etc... I am sure everyone here would be surprised at how many boutique amp companies work out of the President's home..
VVT was incorporated under a Limited liability.. Meaning they cannot touch your personal assets Bank accounts etc..
If you do not have a LL incorporation and build amps at home and someone files a suit against you yes you can loose your house as well as monies you have...
We have an actual building facility where we manufacturer all our products..Since the corporation works out of a separate manufacturing facility the liability laws become less stringent...
For us if a suit is filed and litigation comes to bear and we are sued.. The corporation declares Bankruptcy open's under a different name, or pay's the suit..
For you DIY’rs if you want to get parts at the best possible price you need Tax ID # you need to be incorporated to get one.. At that point Uncle Sam is in the picture so you had better stay organized..
There is also the issue with sales tax and filing taxes.. The paperwork within itself is a part time job...If you ship amps especially overseas.. Better not skimp on packing materials.. You can lose the profit on an amp real quick if it comes back screwed up.. If you insure your shipments (which I recommend)…. UPS won't give you a dime if you didn't pack it right. It costs us roughly$ 60.00 in packing materials alone for 1 amp… You start sending dealers amps that are not packed professionally see if they order another one...
See where this is going.. If you sell a few amps to a major retailer like us with Sam Ash you need a UPC code and a Laser label maker. You need a code for each model or color.. around 2K A pop for each model…
Beginning to get the picture here.. If you are in this business better have a KILLER!!! Web site… Be able to take professional looking pictures and do well written write ups on the amps or people will laugh at you!!!! 5-10K
Oh and if you happen to snag a heavy client better be able to walk the walk and talk the talk.. Those guy’s can smell BS a MILE a way. BS a heavy and see how fast news travel’s in that click…. So to think that all you need is for Brandon to post one of his SSS schematics or a gut shot of Larry’s amp and watch the Gravy flow.. You had better slap yourself and wake up or let me know I’ll give you a hand!!! LOL Just kidding




Tony VVT

[drz400]

Since you brought up LLCs and I was curious as well as to the protection it can offer this is what I learned....

While LLC owners enjoy limited personal liability for many of their business transactions, this protection is not absolute. An LLC owner can be held personally liable if he or she....
...personally and directly injures someone
...personally guarantees a bank loan or a business debt on which the LLC defaults
...fails to deposit taxes withheld from employees' wages
...intentionally does something fraudulent, illegal, or reckless that causes harm to the company or to someone else, or
...treats the LLC as an extension of his or her personal affairs, rather than as a separate legal entity.....
Reckless is a key here and could be applied to failing to follow due diligence and not having CE or UL testing done. This can also render liability insurance void.

Doing business as a corporation or a limited liability company can provide some insulation from claims and debts. Transferring your assets to a friend or a relative usually does not give any protection. Treat your corporation as a separate person. Do not co-mingle funds, or pay personal bills with the corporate checking account or vice versa. If you need to lend money to your corporation have the corporation give you a promissory note that is approved by formal action of the board of directors. Creditors can "pierce the corporate veil" and hold you personally liable if you fail to honor the corporate formalities.

Makes me want to stay working for a company

[heisthl]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen any UL or CE stickers on any real Dumble amps. Not sure about the Kitty Hawk variations.

[ic-racer]

Its all this useless garbage, bogus legislation, and pig-ass lawyer promoted liability that is breeding a whole generation of DIY (beyond amps). When you look at the items available at a Mall or store, it is mostly consumer crap because that's all a manufacturer today can make and stay in business.

Liability legislation is written by lawyers, for lawyers. If the net effect on society is not positive (unless you are a lawyer). You really think some pig-stinking lawyer cares about you to protect you from hot coffee???

http://commongood.org/society.html

[drz400]

Its all this useless garbage, bogus legislation, and pig-ass lawyer promoted liability that is breeding a whole generation of DIY (beyond amps). When you look at the items available at a Mall or store, it is mostly consumer crap because that's all a manufacturer today can make and stay in business.

Liability legislation is written by lawyers, for lawyers. If the net effect on society is not positive (unless you are a lawyer). You really think some pig-stinking lawyer cares about you to protect you from hot coffee???

http://commongood.org/society.html

Oh I dont know about that, making crap has nothing to do with UL or CE, and that testing has nothing to do with how well a product is made. If anything CE will tell you you need a safer grounding terminal in your chassis or that it is a safety hazard to have no grill over the power tubes. Havent you ever seen an amp inside after you purchased it that horrified you and looked like a safety hazard? Some people really do get hurt due to manufacturer negligence.

[nickt]

Its all this useless garbage, bogus legislation, and pig-ass lawyer promoted liability that is breeding a whole generation.... etc

Which would be a fine assesment if:
a. insurance companies didn't seek to recover their payouts
b. eegits accepted responsibility for their own actions
c. bereved families didn't want someone to blame
d. dodgy operators didn't spoil it for everyone else
e. earth leads didn't work loose after 5 years in a band truck

2c.

[talbany]

The Thing that worries me the most is people who know nothing about guitar amps, read of some kind of mod or change they hear about on the web from someone else who knows nothing about guitar amps. Goes inside and gets shocked right at the top of their T-Wave See ya later..It's amazing the amps we get back that have been hacked to bits.. Mismatched NOS tubes and the wrong rectifier tube in a cathode biased amp etc... Regardless of the hack jobs it would upset me greatly to hear that someone would seriously injure themselves or god forbid lose there life trying to so some mod on one of our amps.



Tony VVT

[heisthl]

Maybe the place to put the "GOO" is on anything that could shock you, so in other words just put the chassis under the GOO spout and fill it to level full. This would solve the problem of the earth ground working loose too.

[ic-racer]

Its all this useless garbage, bogus legislation, and pig-ass lawyer promoted liability that is breeding a whole generation of DIY (beyond amps). When you look at the items available at a Mall or store, it is mostly consumer crap because that's all a manufacturer today can make and stay in business.

Liability legislation is written by lawyers, for lawyers. If the net effect on society is not positive (unless you are a lawyer). You really think some pig-stinking lawyer cares about you to protect you from hot coffee???

http://commongood.org/society.html

Oh I dont know about that, making crap has nothing to do with UL or CE, and that testing has nothing to do with how well a product is made. If anything CE will tell you you need a safer grounding terminal in your chassis or that it is a safety hazard to have no grill over the power tubes. Havent you ever seen an amp inside after you purchased it that horrified you and looked like a safety hazard? Some people really do get hurt due to manufacturer negligence.

Did I mention UL?? UL makes no laws; there is nothing wrong with that organization. Some people DO get hurt, and it is the manufacturer's fault, but (to use an electrical circuit analogy) there is too much 'noise' or random activity, in the US Tort system to detect such things. That is too bad for those victims.

The rat-ass lawyers have an industry that sucks over $9000 per year from every US citizen. This is a major, culture-altering force!
http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/na ... /78137.htm