candh wrote:Lot of good info guys. And just for something a little different....
In the future, for a challenge you might want to try doing corners like I do them..ala Komet. They take a while to get down but are sure attractive and draw a lot of positive attention. My amps certainly fall into the "must be babied" category though.
Chris
Nice work Chris! What's your technique for cutting the kerf all the way around the miter to the front of the cab? You can't possibly do that freehand on the tablesaw, right? Is the channel/kerf made before the cabs are assembled? I'd love to do one using your technique. TIA, Noel.
Noel,
Thanks for the compliment. The kerfs are cut after the cab is assembled and rounded over. I have a sled that I built that holds the cab 45 degrees to the straight blade. After running all four edges you have to do the corners by hand ( razor tooth saw to minimize tearout, small chisel, and flat file). It's only about an extra 15 minutes or so to cut the kerfs.
Also, you must round off the inner edge of the kerf or you run the risk of cutting the tolex or vinyl when you are "moulding" the material into the kerf. You must have a heat gun to do this method and it's best to get the material HOT (almost melting) to do a good job.
Gotta get back to work right now but if you would like more details let me know.
I'm going to try my 1st tolex work next week. Planning on having just two seams at the bottom. I am trying to figure out how you would cut it so you don't see the seam. Do you cut the bottom piece and side at the same time? Like you would if you are trying to inlay carpeting onto another carpet? So you would have the bottom piece glued down and then the side piece over lap the the bottom piece and then cut them at the same time?
here's the next project....... its taken time to do enough repairs to afford it...
got a camera..... oh boy.... theres a good chance that they'll be more after..
the guy is breaking down his gear from combos to heads and cabs to lighten
the work..... hes falling apart right on schedual........
this is gonna be the new home for a peavey heritage vtx..... he likes the clean..
I used to be able to buy them years ago. But now I darken them with gun blue. sand off the top first. My friend paints his. It's a little anal , I only do it on restorations.
Per the "black" staples;
Believe it or nay, the indelible ink in a Sharpie, black of course, does a great job on the staples under minimal scrutiny. A single coat kinda turns black/grey not black. But it's a perfect shade for black Tolex's in most positions as it doesn't let the staple reflect light. Which is the #1 tell as the magicians say.
candH, Chris
I'd like to learn more of your technique. I need to learn to "round" those aforementioned channels. I decimated my vinyl 'cause those inner angles were way too sharp.
All excellent things are as difficult as they are rare__B Spinoza
Well, I did my 1st tolex project and it turned out pretty good. Thanks a lot to this thread. The advice of rolling the cabinet onto the tolex was definitely very helpful. Also, I used the tolex glue from AES...no stinky, yes sticky. I just hope it will last.
The cab was done with dovetail joints ( Yeah I know you can't see it ). The chassis in the cab is from my 1st build, so it's not really meant for this cabinet. I still need to build the amp for this cabinet.
looks good all the same....... love the wood tone....... my wife is always
gettin after me to do tolex or fabric..... love the contast between wood and
tolex..... the handle fits well too
Andy Le Blanc wrote:here's the next project....... its taken time to do enough repairs to afford it...
got a camera..... oh boy.... theres a good chance that they'll be more after..
the guy is breaking down his gear from combos to heads and cabs to lighten
the work..... hes falling apart right on schedual........
this is gonna be the new home for a peavey heritage vtx..... he likes the clean..
Bisquit joints?
I just restored a master volume Twin. It looks like Fender was trying to save a buck on the cabinets by then, for those who aren't familiar with late '70s Fenders they used rabbet joints held together with glue and staples. Every late '70s Twin I've seen has come apart to one degree or another. It took less than a minute with a deadblow hammer to take the cabinet apart after removing the covering. I replaced the baffle (it was broken), the grille panel (it was broken) the bottom panel (no less than 40 holes drilled in it), the top panel (it wasn't attached to the cabinet) and the back panels (originals were AWOL). If you've been keeping track I saved the sides because that's where the tube chart is. One side had a long crack in it so I split it and glued it back together.
I use bisquits or rabbet joints for a few applications but for most applications they're sub-optimum IMHO.
The pic is with new wood in place but prior to being shaped. I don't take pics of everything so in-progress pics and the final result are NLA. It turned out like a new master volume Twin.
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I've been told by several people that biscuit joints are as strong or stronger then dovetail joints.
I bought a good router with intentions of getting back into proper dovetail joints (with a nice jig I have yet to afford), but I'm also considering a biscuit jointer for simple TW style cabs without the fingers or doves.
Lonely Raven wrote:I've been told by several people that biscuit joints are as strong or stronger then dovetail joints.
A lot of people would like to believe biscuits are as strong as dovetails. Look at the orientation of the wood grain... that's why I bring up the master volume Twin. Any old cabinet maker will tell you that that trying to glue to end grain won't work, it's the weakest joint. That's what's happening with the '70s Fender cabinets, there's no strength to the joint other than the four or five staples. The glue joint fails pretty quickly then it's up to the staples and tolex to hold it together. IMHO there's not a big difference between staples and biscuits, same sort of joint with a similar method of reinforcement. It's not the right way to do it.
Biscuits are more or less o.k. to join MDF or plywood. They insert nicely into end grain on solid stock but there's not a whole lot of "meat" there to withstand any substantial impact. I can't count the number of road dog cabinets I've repaired but you can be sure that if there's a way for something to fail on the road it will fail sooner or later.
Lonely Raven, the Porter Cable 4200 series dovetail jig has worked for well for me... I paid around $120.
I friend of mine loaned me a magazine and they rated the different joints. IIRC box joints came out on top. I will look for the mag and post when I get home.
Andy, I was lucky to find a wood that provided a nice contrast with the tolex. The wood is Bubinga sanded up to 400 and finished with salad bowl finish by General Finishes. I used the salad bowl finish because it's low odor.
it depends on the application..... combo cabinets have to hold up to a lot
so the join has to hold up ... its a "live" join ... whole lot of stress......
and you can only be so cheap before it comes back to bite you....
ive been going with a glue and peg affair.... it can be done on the cheap....
with hand tools.... looks good..... and so far hasnt shown any problems
time will tell of course.. bicuits joins make more surface for the glue
but dont make a good mechanical coupling..... your just reinforceing a butt
join....
