Thoughts on Jimmy Page’s Super Bass Marshall?

[cdemike]

Sundragon redid their site once they released the Nymph, and I'm noticing that the new site has manuals posted which are quite informative. Specifically of interest, it alludes to the amp having a bright cap: "Because of its unique circuit, the amp will become brighter as you lower the Volume control and 'fatter' as you turn up it up."

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... ual_v2.pdf

Great link, I hadn’t heard of Amperian speakers before, they are made in the same location as Warehouse Speakers (or perhaps made by Warehouse Speakers?)
The speakers seem to exclusively use the 55hz cone.

https://amperian.com/pages/speakers

The link confirms the 12AU7 in the P.I. stage.
I thought Page used KT-88’s and not 6550’s.

Yup, Amperian and WGS are owned by the same people! The manual lists the cabinet's power handling as 120W making for 30w per speaker, but Amperian only offers one 30w speaker in their standard lineup which has an AlNiCo magnet. I doubt Page and Colby would load those and say they respond so much like 55hz G12H's, I'm gathering the speakers in question must actually have been specially made for Sundragon rather than being a variant of something in their normal lineup. I was originally thinking it'd be the Explorer LV, which is 60w, but evidently not. Maybe some revived version of the 55hz Reaper?

I also was suspicious Page's amp would use 6550's, though I wouldn't be super surprised given that the export spec used 6550s. In the intro to the manual Page claims he had his amps modified prior to mid-1969 when they started recording LZ II, which much earlier than I thought, especially since he was using the Hiwatt primarily for nearly 2 years after they started recording LZ II.

Regarding the 12AU7, I did finally get around to trying the spec Charlie listed in its entirety. My doubts about the 12AU7 were mis-placed. There's definitely enough drive to get 1973-era sounds with this configuration, although it is markedly stiffer than the stock configuration. It also sounded good with the 220K bias reference resistors, but I was too chicken to keep them since those big bottle tubes are pricey. 82K doesn't sound too different, but I actually kind of preferred the slight bass trim. Nearly all of the audible frequency spectrum passes through the 100nF/82K setup anyway. I'll try to get some clips recorded before too long, but I did also "fill in the blanks" by adding a bright cap, so I'm glad the manual seems to back that choice up. There are a few mentions of "unusual" value components in Page's amp, so I did some experimenting with bright cap values as well. Anything large pretty large sounds right to my ears, including the common-to-Marshall 4n7, although I thought 3n3 and 2n2 both still sounded right with appropriate EQ adjustments whereas 4n7 was sounded a little bit boomy.

[Mark]

Sundragon redid their site once they released the Nymph, and I'm noticing that the new site has manuals posted which are quite informative. Specifically of interest, it alludes to the amp having a bright cap: "Because of its unique circuit, the amp will become brighter as you lower the Volume control and 'fatter' as you turn up it up."

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... ual_v2.pdf

Great link, I hadn’t heard of Amperian speakers before, they are made in the same location as Warehouse Speakers (or perhaps made by Warehouse Speakers?)
The speakers seem to exclusively use the 55hz cone.

https://amperian.com/pages/speakers

The link confirms the 12AU7 in the P.I. stage.
I thought Page used KT-88’s and not 6550’s.

Yup, Amperian and WGS are owned by the same people! The manual lists the cabinet's power handling as 120W making for 30w per speaker, but Amperian only offers one 30w speaker in their standard lineup which has an AlNiCo magnet. I doubt Page and Colby would load those and say they respond so much like 55hz G12H's, I'm gathering the speakers in question must actually have been specially made for Sundragon rather than being a variant of something in their normal lineup. I was originally thinking it'd be the Explorer LV, which is 60w, but evidently not. Maybe some revived version of the 55hz Reaper?

I also was suspicious Page's amp would use 6550's, though I wouldn't be super surprised given that the export spec used 6550s. In the intro to the manual Page claims he had his amps modified prior to mid-1969 when they started recording LZ II, which much earlier than I thought, especially since he was using the Hiwatt primarily for nearly 2 years after they started recording LZ II.

Regarding the 12AU7, I did finally get around to trying the spec Charlie listed in its entirety. My doubts about the 12AU7 were mis-placed. There's definitely enough drive to get 1973-era sounds with this configuration, although it is markedly stiffer than the stock configuration. It also sounded good with the 220K bias reference resistors, but I was too chicken to keep them since those big bottle tubes are pricey. 82K doesn't sound too different, but I actually kind of preferred the slight bass trim. Nearly all of the audible frequency spectrum passes through the 100nF/82K setup anyway. I'll try to get some clips recorded before too long, but I did also "fill in the blanks" by adding a bright cap, so I'm glad the manual seems to back that choice up. There are a few mentions of "unusual" value components in Page's amp, so I did some experimenting with bright cap values as well. Anything large pretty large sounds right to my ears, including the common-to-Marshall 4n7, although I thought 3n3 and 2n2 both still sounded right with appropriate EQ adjustments whereas 4n7 was sounded a little bit boomy.

Thanks for the feedback. What do you think of Page’s tone using the Orange amps?

[cdemike]

I’ve read so many conflicting things about Page’s relationship to Orange. My understanding is that the “Orge” head in the 70s was used for the theremin, but I truthfully haven’t really looked too deeply in terms of whether it was sometimes on guitar duty or in terms of what amps he used after LZ. Wasn’t there speculation he was using an Orange AD30 or AD50 for the O2 show?

[WhopperPlate]

I also was suspicious Page's amp would use 6550's, though I wouldn't be super surprised given that the export spec used 6550s. In the intro to the manual Page claims he had his amps modified prior to mid-1969 when they started recording LZ II, which much earlier than I thought, especially since he was using the Hiwatt primarily for nearly 2 years after they started recording LZ II.

This has me questioning the narrative as well, but perhaps it eventually grew on him for live use, because he claims this was used for recording .

[Mark]

I’ve read so many conflicting things about Page’s relationship to Orange. My understanding is that the “Orge” head in the 70s was used for the theremin, but I truthfully haven’t really looked too deeply in terms of whether it was sometimes on guitar duty or in terms of what amps he used after LZ. Wasn’t there speculation he was using an Orange AD30 or AD50 for the O2 show?

I thought I read somewhere that he was using Orange AD30, and I wonder if his present tone is better than his old tone?
I don’t mind the sound of his Hiwatt amp. That’s a great sound.