Modifying lead channel in Two Rock Bloomfield Drive

[SamuelGreen]

Hello all!

I'm brand new, so I apologize if this is the wrong place to post this.

Long story short, I have a Bloomfield drive and I love the thing, but I've always struggled with the lead channel. I've always felt that when switching over to lead, I'd lose the depth that I love in the clean channel, while getting a bunch of unwanted high harmonics that seem to clash and ultimately the sound comes across as harsh.

Then, when trying to compensate with EQ, gain staging, etc.. I can't get away from the harshness without being left with a dull lead tone, and an even duller clean.

I understand that I'm not alone in my confusion about the lead channel in this amp, so I wonder if any of you have any insight on this.

For context, I love the tone the Josh smith get with the TS-1 at 6:36 here:
https://youtu.be/2yTZmed9n-Y?si=53sHc_2_HH3Fd0ll

Thank you!

[SamuelGreen]

@Guy77
@rootz
I think I saw you two talking about this circuit and I believe one of you was doing a similar modification if I'm not mistaken.

[fred.violleau]

Hey SamuelGreen,

Can you elaborate on your context before we can try and help you :
- What is your typical setting? Single coils ? Humbuckers? Do you use the FX loop ? with what kind of FX ? using a D-Lator ?
- What is your speaker configuration ? brand and speaker setup (parrallele or in serie and total ohm impedance of the speaker cab).

Before modding an amp, I would advise a couple of things : have you tried
- swapping preamp tubes ? Sometimes some tubes don't sound good in certain positions, and the overdrive may be picky;
- swapping speakers and speakers cab ? This has the most effect on your tone after the amp and is a quick one to check;
- unmatching the speaker with amp load ? like running the amp at 8 ohm into a 4 ohm load ? It usually produces a slightly darker tone and it is safe for the amp and the speakers (BUT DON'T DO THE OPPOSITE);
- using a D-lator with long cables in the FX Loop is also a way to darken the tone without modifying the amp;

You own a piece of gear that is quite expensive, and modding it could devaluate your amp, and even make it unusable...
Unless you are good at soldering, know basic amp topology and read electrical schematic, I would not advise to do so yet.

BTW, here is a great link about the bloomfield drive by @Guy77: https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34565

My 2 cents;

Fred.

[SamuelGreen]

Hey SamuelGreen,

Can you elaborate on your context before we can try and help you :
- What is your typical setting? Single coils ? Humbuckers? Do you use the FX loop ? with what kind of FX ? using a D-Lator ?
- What is your speaker configuration ? brand and speaker setup (parrallele or in serie and total ohm impedance of the speaker cab).

Before modding an amp, I would advise a couple of things : have you tried
- swapping preamp tubes ? Sometimes some tubes don't sound good in certain positions, and the overdrive may be picky;
- swapping speakers and speakers cab ? This has the most effect on your tone after the amp and is a quick one to check;
- unmatching the speaker with amp load ? like running the amp at 8 ohm into a 4 ohm load ? It usually produces a slightly darker tone and it is safe for the amp and the speakers (BUT DON'T DO THE OPPOSITE);
- using a D-lator with long cables in the FX Loop is also a way to darken the tone without modifying the amp;

You own a piece of gear that is quite expensive, and modding it could devaluate your amp, and even make it unusable...
Unless you are good at soldering, know basic amp topology and read electrical schematic, I would not advise to do so yet.

BTW, here is a great link about the bloomfield drive by @Guy77: https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34565

My 2 cents;

Fred.

Of course! I've got a parts strat in D-standard with a Lollar dirty blonde set. So it's definitely got more warmth than a typical strat. I've also got steel baseplates on the middle and bridge.

Effects-wise I run a chasebliss thermae in the loop sometimes, and that seems to help, though I'd prefer to isolate the lead channel with any tweaks since I'm happy with the cleans. It's really the perceived EQ shift between the channels that bothers me I think.

I've also tweaked the two internal trim pots and talked to Eli on the phone for guidance with that.

I'm not planning on doing any modifications myself, I know nothing! I just want to learn a bit about what people might have done in order to speak the language a bit better with a qualified tech. Since there are a lot of ways to skin the cat, one way might stick out as the most logical. I've read about snubbers, and my understanding is that this lead channel doesn't have them, so I thought that might be a good place to start(?)
Thank you!!!

[Guy77]

Hey SamuelGreen,

Can you elaborate on your context before we can try and help you :
- What is your typical setting? Single coils ? Humbuckers? Do you use the FX loop ? with what kind of FX ? using a D-Lator ?
- What is your speaker configuration ? brand and speaker setup (parrallele or in serie and total ohm impedance of the speaker cab).

Before modding an amp, I would advise a couple of things : have you tried
- swapping preamp tubes ? Sometimes some tubes don't sound good in certain positions, and the overdrive may be picky;
- swapping speakers and speakers cab ? This has the most effect on your tone after the amp and is a quick one to check;
- unmatching the speaker with amp load ? like running the amp at 8 ohm into a 4 ohm load ? It usually produces a slightly darker tone and it is safe for the amp and the speakers (BUT DON'T DO THE OPPOSITE);
- using a D-lator with long cables in the FX Loop is also a way to darken the tone without modifying the amp;

You own a piece of gear that is quite expensive, and modding it could devaluate your amp, and even make it unusable...
Unless you are good at soldering, know basic amp topology and read electrical schematic, I would not advise to do so yet.

BTW, here is a great link about the bloomfield drive by @Guy77: https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34565

My 2 cents;

Fred.

Of course! I've got a parts strat in D-standard with a Lollar dirty blonde set. So it's definitely got more warmth than a typical strat. I've also got steel baseplates on the middle and bridge.

Effects-wise I run a chasebliss thermae in the loop sometimes, and that seems to help, though I'd prefer to isolate the lead channel with any tweaks since I'm happy with the cleans. It's really the perceived EQ shift between the channels that bothers me I think.

I've also tweaked the two internal trim pots and talked to Eli on the phone for guidance with that.

I'm not planning on doing any modifications myself, I know nothing! I just want to learn a bit about what people might have done in order to speak the language a bit better with a qualified tech. Since there are a lot of ways to skin the cat, one way might stick out as the most logical. I've read about snubbers, and my understanding is that this lead channel doesn't have them, so I thought that might be a good place to start(?)
Thank you!!!

Hi Samuel. I just answered the email you sent me here.

Cheers
Guy

[fred.violleau]

Of course! I've got a parts strat in D-standard with a Lollar dirty blonde set. So it's definitely got more warmth than a typical strat. I've also got steel baseplates on the middle and bridge.

Effects-wise I run a chasebliss thermae in the loop sometimes, and that seems to help, though I'd prefer to isolate the lead channel with any tweaks since I'm happy with the cleans. It's really the perceived EQ shift between the channels that bothers me I think.

I've also tweaked the two internal trim pots and talked to Eli on the phone for guidance with that.

I'm not planning on doing any modifications myself, I know nothing! I just want to learn a bit about what people might have done in order to speak the language a bit better with a qualified tech. Since there are a lot of ways to skin the cat, one way might stick out as the most logical. I've read about snubbers, and my understanding is that this lead channel doesn't have them, so I thought that might be a good place to start(?)
Thank you!!!

Hey Samuel, thanks for the input on the instruments and FX.
BTW a great way to darken the tone is also to turn the reverb high on the low side, it may add weird harmonics when too bright with a huge reverb).
This way, you do not alter the sound of the amp.

Again speaker configuration is crucial.

What do you use ?

Fred.

[SamuelGreen]

I'm running a stock two rock speaker, 12-65 esque I think? Don't quote me you probably know better than I.

[SamuelGreen]

Upon deep analysis, I think that a part of the issue is that the lead channel seems to cut a lot of low end, making the higher frequencies less tolerable. Does anyone know what the mechanism is that causes this?

[dbharris]

Upon deep analysis, I think that a part of the issue is that the lead channel seems to cut a lot of low end, making the higher frequencies less tolerable. Does anyone know what the mechanism is that causes this?

You could try increasing one or both of the OD coupling caps to a leather capacitance. OD circuits usually do that to prevent the overdriven tone from getting too flubby or fuzzy. Or you could search on here for the HF Taper mod and add that so that you can shave off some high end.

-Dan

[Röhren-Amp]

I can send you send you as many details and photos from my Two Rock Coral if you want. Maybe this would help a little bit.

In my opinion it’s the best sounding, of the cascading Amp’s they built, when it comes to the seamless transition from clean to overdrive.
Tried the custom reverbs 1 & 3 and also the Bloomfield drive and was never 100% happy with the tonal change of this amps when hitting the overdrive section.

I mean, the Coral and the BD, both have more of a blackface kinda character to it and if you like that you can tweak the OD more towards the Coral.

Greetings from Germany,

Alex