Advice Needed: Vintage Danelectro Cadet 122.

[leaveitalone84]

Amp Gurus,

Goal: To have a killer studio/practice low watt tone monster. All without sacrificing the character of the amp as it is now. I am limiting my use because this amp is dangerous.

So, on Friday night I bought a small 1955-65's Danelectro Cadet 122. The tube compliment is quite unique, and its tone is suburb. I found the amp for $150 USD.

I have attached a schematic of a Silvertone 1430 which had the same features as an earlier Danelectro Cadet. In fact they looked like the same amp. My model is a little newer. It is a different cabinet/chassis and has the inclusion of a tone control. On 1st person observation and with examination from pictures it looks very close electrically.

I would be grateful if anyone could help me in finding the correct schematic.

I attached a new power cord and cleaned the mechanical connections; before I started her up. The noise floor was low and the pots were dead quiet. I feel the jacks could use replacing as they were completely oxidized. There also needs to be a grounded power cord installed. I am limiting my use because this amp is dangerous. They don't make'm like this no'more for a reason.

I also need to check the cap values. Since the amp was very quiet I feel they aren't that bad? I don't want to ruin her by putting in all new components and I still want to be safe using it. Resisters will be checked.

I will be installing a 117:117V transformer to isolate the player from the line.

The amp is very musical. Great traditional blues\rock\country playing fits this amp perfectly. Other players have agreed including my guitar sensei. I feel the low end lacks punch though and the highs are choked.

The speaker is rotted and a better driver would improve its sound. The baffle is also an inferior paper board material. I feel the cabinet's tone would be improved with a plywood one and a Jenson P8R, Weber CVA8, or CVC8. It has room for the 8", which should improve it's bass response as well. Is there a reason to stay 6"?

I will keep the original parts. And try not to modify the existing irreversibly.

Some thoughts flowed through my head about backing up the rear panel with a sheet of aluminum. RFI shielding would be improved and heavy use areas reinforced. All concealed. I want this to be a stealth drunk jam/studio weapon.

I welcome any comments or suggestions.

[leaveitalone84]

Everyone likes more pictures.

[skyboltone]

You don't need an isolation transformer. Just the three conductor cord with the green attached to any convienient metal point (solder tab) and then the other metal points grounded from there. It is a minimalist sucker isn't it.

I don't know about changing too much if it's working. Most guys will run and oldie like that up on a variac and let her cook for overnight before playing just to kind of rearrange the molecules in the filter cap. But if it ain't broke why fix it.

[CaseyJones]

I welcome any comments or suggestions.

http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainb ... ne1430.pdf

Personally I think the amp is an epic POS. A reeking bowel movement, a scatalogical statement that's eloquent in its own filth caked context.

HAVING SAID THAT most of the Danelectro amps can be improved with a different cabinet and a good speaker. Harp players love 'em as-is because the shallow cabinet made of cheap materials and the low buck stock speaker choke the amp so it doesn't feed back with '50s technology mics.

The speaker is rotted and a better driver would improve its sound. The baffle is also an inferior paper board material. I feel the cabinet's tone would be improved with a plywood one and a Jenson P8R, Weber CVA8, or CVC8. It has room for the 8", which should improve it's bass response as well. Is there a reason to stay 6"?

The Weber alnico Sig8S is a killer replacement for vintage Jensen 8" alnicos. There's no reason to stick with a 6" speaker unless you want to try the new 6" Sig Ted designed for the Champion 600.

Having gone most of the way there by sticking the thing in a new cabinet with a new speaker... I'd go the rest of the way and shitcan everything except for that 12AU6 preamp. I'd swap in a 6AU6 tube that would work with 6.3 volt filaments then use a proper power supply with a transformer in it. A 6AU6 dumping into a 6AQ5 or 6BQ5 might be interesting, it's certainly more credible than a transformerless bargain bin special. Maybe an extra tube stage or two between the 6AU6 and whatever you end up using for a power amp tube. Then there would be nothing left of the original amp, bummer for you 'cuz apparently you dig it.

Oh wait, what are those swimming pool blue / green caps? Sangamos? I might keep those, those are cool. LOVE that color!

Don't change it... clone it! Then mutate the clone. If you really want a literal clone I have a couple hundred 50C5 tubes and a couple hundred more 35W4s.

Just my opinion... and as y'all know I'm a loathsome and opinionated bastard!

[skyboltone]

I welcome any comments or suggestions.

http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainb ... ne1430.pdf

Personally I think the amp is an epic POS. A reeking bowel movement, a scatalogical statement that's eloquent in its own filth caked context.

HAVING SAID THAT most of the Danelectro amps can be improved with a different cabinet and a good speaker. Harp players love 'em as-is because the shallow cabinet made of cheap materials and the low buck stock speaker choke the amp so it doesn't feed back with '50s technology mics.

The speaker is rotted and a better driver would improve its sound. The baffle is also an inferior paper board material. I feel the cabinet's tone would be improved with a plywood one and a Jenson P8R, Weber CVA8, or CVC8. It has room for the 8", which should improve it's bass response as well. Is there a reason to stay 6"?

The Weber alnico Sig8S is a killer replacement for vintage Jensen 8" alnicos. There's no reason to stick with a 6" speaker unless you want to try the new 6" Sig Ted designed for the Champion 600.

Having gone most of the way there by sticking the thing in a new cabinet with a new speaker... I'd go the rest of the way and shitcan everything except for that 12AU6 preamp. I'd swap in a 6AU6 tube that would work with 6.3 volt filaments then use a proper power supply with a transformer in it. A 6AU6 dumping into a 6AQ5 or 6BQ5 might be interesting, it's certainly more credible than a transformerless bargain bin special. Maybe an extra tube stage or two between the 6AU6 and whatever you end up using for a power amp tube. Then there would be nothing left of the original amp, bummer for you 'cuz apparently you dig it.

Oh wait, what are those swimming pool blue / green caps? Sangamos? I might keep those, those are cool. LOVE that color!

Don't change it... clone it! Then mutate the clone. If you really want a literal clone I have a couple hundred 50C5 tubes and a couple hundred more 35W4s.

Just my opinion... and as y'all know I'm a loathsome and opinionated bastard!

Another masterfull understatment by the Reverand Jones. The hard facts are that anything older than Casey is collectable. Doesn't matter what it sounds like, some Danelectro nut will want it bad someday. Don't mod it. Build or buy something you like or just play the thing as is. There's no such thing as a bedroom amp anyway. And studio means putting a real amp in a box.

[leaveitalone84]

Okay. So I figured I wouldn't find it anywhere so I went off the 1430 and corrected it to my amp. Below is the correct schematic for this amp.

I couldn't tell the value of the tone control from its angle.

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm not looking to mod it per say. I just want to make it safe enough that I can mic it and then go to another mic and not melt my face off. If I wont be using it my girlfriends son will.

If I change the speaker/baffle I will use original screw holes and use new grill cloth. The amp would be returnable to stock condition. Other than the power cable, which is just common sense.

I'm my experience you can get a great sound out of surprising things in the studio. You don't always need a trainwreck or classic Vox to get good recorded tone. It's highly dependent on the sound and vibe you're looking for. Heck Jack Whites tone are Silvertones about to blow up.

We also know not all clones sound the same. This thing has something magical about it. Don't know what more to say. It's not a Vintage Orange, Vox, Traynor, Supro etc etc. This was never meant to be stadium rig it is just the poor mans blues amp. It could have also been the amp which inspired someone like Duane Allman or some kid to escape a shitty life. It is a piece of Americana from our golden years. It has a right to be heard too.

Magic doesn't always come in the form of an EL34.

[Tubetwang]

i've had a few of those in the far past.

They are noisy little buggers...

I'd leave it alone...and enjoy it for what it is...an old 50$ amp.

You'll probably sell it eventually, if you grow tired of it...

You could build one for cheap as they have few parts...

[stelligan]

You need to ship that thing to me so I can wank these through that teeny speaker!!

[Tubetwang]

i want to build me one of them little Dana 1 p.u. six strings for me slide work...

[CaseyJones]

Just my opinion... and as y'all know I'm a loathsome and opinionated bastard!

Another masterfull understatment by the Reverand Jones.

Partially correct but you must have me confused with someone else... my late Uncle Jim perhaps?

The hard facts are that anything older than Casey is collectable. Doesn't matter what it sounds like, some Danelectro nut will want it bad someday. Don't mod it. Build or buy something you like or just play the thing as is. There's no such thing as a bedroom amp anyway. And studio means putting a real amp in a box.

It's easy enough to find a '60s plastic radio on eBay for around ten bucks with roughly the same tube lineup. Those 50C5 and 35W4 tubes were designed for cheap transformerless radios. The typical guitar amp application uses a 12AV6 or a 12AT6 on the preamp.

If you want to give your clone a little class use a 50L6 and a 35Z4, they're octal tubes intended for transformerless use. If you go transformerless use the 12AU6 preamp, for a version with a real power supply use a 6AU6.

I might even stick with the 6" speaker... but only because I have a whole bunch of those things I don't have any other use for!

Oh yeah, as you know the hallmark of those transformerless amps is a hot chassis. Guitar strings grounded to a hot chassis equals hot guitar strings. The amp won't electrocute you if you display it for what it is... an interesting collectible. SURE you can use an isolation transformer, it's just that every time I've considered using up my 50C5 and 35W4 tubes I've concluded that it would be a better use of my time to build something else.

I couldn't tell the value of the tone control from its angle.

Put me down for a bet on 500k audio taper.

I'm not looking to mod it per say. I just want to make it safe enough that I can mic it and then go to another mic and not melt my face off. If I wont be using it my girlfriends son will.

If I change the speaker/baffle I will use original screw holes and use new grill cloth. The amp would be returnable to stock condition. Other than the power cable, which is just common sense.

Oh c'mon, your user I.D. is "leaveitalone" so leave it alone! Seriously, if you want enough junk to get a good start on a clone I'll be happy to send you a box of parts. Box o' junk would include a chassis punched out for three miniature tubes, a handful of 50C5 and 35W4 tubes and maybe a couple 6" speakers. Run four of them in series / parallel for a psycho bargain bin mini-stack!

I'm my experience you can get a great sound out of surprising things in the studio. You don't always need a trainwreck or classic Vox to get good recorded tone. It's highly dependent on the sound and vibe you're looking for. Heck Jack Whites tone are Silvertones about to blow up.

You're preachin' to the choir. It is, after all Sunday morning.

We also know not all clones sound the same. This thing has something magical about it. Don't know what more to say. It's not a Vintage Orange, Vox, Traynor, Supro etc etc. This was never meant to be stadium rig it is just the poor mans blues amp. It could have also been the amp which inspired someone like Duane Allman or some kid to escape a shitty life. It is a piece of Americana from our golden years. It has a right to be heard too.

These were never meant to be "blues" amps! Maybe they ended up in the hands of a bluesman or two out of poverty and the sheer inability to buy something else.

"Blues" came along a lot later. Well a lot earlier actually but it took guys like Page, Beck and Clapton to discover blues and re-introduce them to the U.S.. The Brits are also largely responsible for the explosion of popularity of guitars starting in the mid-'60s.

The Allmans always had killer gear. They were so far ahead of their time tone-wise it isn't even funny.

Magic doesn't always come in the form of an EL34.

O.k., so we'll try this: I'll place a pair of NOS xf1 Mullard EL34s next to your Dano. You get to keep whatever you grab first.

[skyboltone]

Personally I think the amp is an epic POS. A reeking bowel movement, a scatalogical statement that's eloquent in its own filth caked context

Actually I was referring to this one, not the self analysis. You might be just a tad hard on yourself Casey. And the Reverand bit grew out of one of your replies to me in another ancient thread. Don't remember which one now. Something about less is more.

Yer Pal
Dan

[CaseyJones]

Personally I think the amp is an epic POS. A reeking bowel movement, a scatalogical statement that's eloquent in its own filth caked context

Actually I was referring to this one, not the self analysis. You might be just a tad hard on yourself Casey. And the Reverand bit grew out of one of your replies to me in another ancient thread. Don't remember which one now. Something about less is more.

Oh, that. Perhaps I was a bit hasty... while the amp is a POS to begin with it's a remarkably well preserved POS... as opposed to a filth caked POS.

I have an EV SRO that was left face down under a bird cage, for real! That thing truly is filth caked!

"The moving finger flips the bird"... no, waidaminnit, Take 2: "The moving finger writes and, having written... moves on".

[stelligan]

i want to build me one of them little Dana 1 p.u. six strings for me slide work...

Perfect for that.

leaveitalone84,
As to my vote, it is your handle. Leave it alone. The old and funky is meant to remain just that. OLD AND FUNKY!

Dave

[CaseyJones]

Well... lookee here!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-1950s-Danelect ... dZViewItem

Cut the cord off it, swipe the handle and blow it out for three hundred and change. Why didn't I think of that?!

[Structo]

Looks like the same pictures.