New 183 build

[WhopperPlate]

I usually grab the brightest and most temperamental single coil Stratocaster type guitar I have when I am dialing an amplifier. . If I can get it to respond musically to that guitar it generally will sound glorious with almost any other guitar. When I use my 72 Les Paul custom for the same purposes I will constantly over tweak and under tweak because it just sounds so good all the time

[cys]

Hi Stephen,

I keep everything in the signal chain in play to modify to the extent that I can. I'm stuck with my playing though. There have been instances on this site where people have rebuilt their Dumble build several different ways with different lead dress and components, but never bonding with it until they changed the tone stack or transformed it to another Dumble version entirely. Yet, they were drawn to the original model version by it's sound. I was surprised pickup changes had the effect it did on my 183 whose build is described here. The clean was always great, but getting chords to work at high levels of overdrive (overdrive provided by the amp *only* -- no pedals) had been troublesome.

This thread has been really interesting to me and it has inspired me to build a Bluesmaster. Unless I have an odd guitar out that needs sound shaping with pickup changes, I will be stuck with my static stable of guitars on the Bluesmaster build, and will have to do all the tone shaping within the amp itself.

Chris

edit: added clarification ^ overdrive provided by the amp only.

[WhopperPlate]

I keep everything in the signal chain in play to modify to extent that I can.

IME this may mislead . Are you tweaking the amplifiers tonal response, or attenuating the pedals response?

Words I try to live by : keep it simple stupid . Keeps me outta trouble more often than not .

[cys]

I keep everything in the signal chain in play to modify to extent that I can.

IME this may mislead . Are you tweaking the amplifiers tonal response, or attenuating the pedals response?

Words I try to live by : keep it simple stupid . Keeps me outta trouble more often than not .

I did mean it as everything in the signal chain generically without any specification. In the context of my signal chain over the last couple posts it is guitarist --> guitar --> amp. I don't use pedals. I'm altering the signal the guitar produces by changing the pickups. I'm certainly all for shaping the tone in the amp. It's part of why I'm here of course, but I'm really here for tone. So, once I've done my best rendition of the 183 with careful component selection and lead dress, I'm willing to do some shaping at the guitar if the opportunity presents. Normally this is pulling different guitars down off the wall, but in this instance the les paul wasn't "playing well" with pickups, and so in my efforts to settle on the best pickups for this guitar, I was able to audition several through the 183 before landing on "nirvana." I built and sold about 20 partscasters with different woods over the years to try and hone my sense for that part of the sound equation. Sometimes I'd have a body that it would take a year or two to match with the right neck. And then there's finding the right pickups. I built a ton of pedals and was never satisfied with what they do, so now I don't use them. I've been focused on the amp part of the chain for the past several years. Building is something I'm new to, with only a Liverpool and a 183 behind me, I've effectively done very little on this front. The 183 I'm happy with now. The Liverpool sounds great but needs some firming up, and I'm going to apply some ideas from this thread to it, perhaps by adding some CC or CF resistors to the B+. So far only two amps have been "perfect" on arrival: a 1971 Marshall 1986/7 and a 1980 Marshall 2204 JMP with a Cameron Jose Mod (blasphemy).

Note: I did go back and clarify in my previous post that the overdrive referenced was that of the amp and not a pedal.

[bepone]

I usually grab the brightest and most temperamental single coil Stratocaster type guitar I have when I am dialing an amplifier. . If I can get it to respond musically to that guitar it generally will sound glorious with almost any other guitar. When I use my 72 Les Paul custom for the same purposes I will constantly over tweak and under tweak because it just sounds so good all the time

i have i have!
diy from the wild apple wood! tree hit by lightning! i pulled out the planks and dried them for 5 years. sound is more sparkling than normal strat with the same set of p.ups

j9.jpg

[WhopperPlate]

I did mean it as everything in the signal chain generically without any specification. In the context of my signal chain over the last couple posts it is guitarist --> guitar --> amp. I don't use pedals.

Cool, that’s the call . We’re on the same page.

I for one am not going to say you shouldn’t look toward your guitar for your primary tone . It stands to reason this ideally should be known for any individual player (good luck) , and that most tonal descriptions shared are kind of a ballpark reference without naming specific guitars being used , assuming that you already have a guitar that gives the goods . Guilty as charged there.

With that being said I personally approach the amplifier as something I want to work well with any guitars. Perhaps not ideally for each individual guitar, but musically nonetheless. I hear a tonal signature with each amplifier that is ultimately independent from the selected guitar and pickups . I can say the same thing about pedals and effects . Obviously some tonal signatures work better with different sound sources, but my hifi receiver isn’t going to give me Larry Carlton tone no matter which pickups I use .

At the same time , if you want to talk about pickups for the right tone then you should also talk about picks and technique and any other signal source . Here’s a good reference point for player vs player in the same setup .

https://youtu.be/ejGEM4_-V1Q

So far only two amps have been "perfect" on arrival: a 1971 Marshall 1986/7 and a 1980 Marshall 2204 JMP with a Cameron Jose Mod (blasphemy).

I am unsurprised

[WhopperPlate]

i have i have!

[Stephen1966]

On the subject of pots, I hear it is quite important to use the same (or very similar) values as detailed in Tony's layout and in the photos.

VOLUME - 1M CTS log
TREBLE - 270k CTS log
MIDDLE - 250k Alpha linear
BASS - 311.7k Alpha linear
DRIVE - 272.2k CTS log
VOLUME - 285.1k CTS log
MASTER - 908k CTS log
PRESENCE - 2.199k CTS dimpled back (possibly CTS "Vintage taper": j-taper/30%)

This is more a skills question. How would you go about shaving the traces to increase the resistance evenly across the full range of travel?

[ijedouglas]

This is more a skills question. How would you go about shaving the traces to increase the resistance evenly across the full range of travel?

Carefully

I use a scalpel and make light passes on the edges. The alpha pots are a little more difficult as they do not come apart like the CTS do.

Keep measuring and take your time.

I prefer to find pots that are close to what I need as it's a real PITA.

BTW, I believe the bass pot at 311K was an incorrect measurement and you should look for something in the range of 350K-380K.

[Stephen1966]

This is more a skills question. How would you go about shaving the traces to increase the resistance evenly across the full range of travel?

Carefully

I use a scalpel and make light passes on the edges. The alpha pots are a little more difficult as they do not come apart like the CTS do.

Keep measuring and take your time.

I prefer to find pots that are close to what I need as it's a real PITA.

BTW, I believe the bass pot at 311K was an incorrect measurement and you should look for something in the range of 350K-380K.

Thanks Ian, that's what I thought

I was also looking at a chemical solution - a decarboniser... perhaps acetone or IPA? Having seen how ferric chloride oxidises and corrodes PCBs it would probably be too patchy this way.

[WhopperPlate]

Alligator clips on a meter helps to not overshoot the target

[Stephen1966]

Alligator clips on a meter helps to not overshoot the target

Good idea! I have some redundant CTS and Alpha pots so can give the scalpel blade idea a try... A CTS bass pot might be easier to work with than an Alpha if the metal shaft is mechanically pressed on the plastic disk of the wiper as I suspect.

[WhopperPlate]

CTS far easier to modify

[bepone]

500k pot with 910k in parallel is 320kohms
500k pot with 1M in parallel is 333 kohms
500k pot with 1M8 in parallel is 391 kohms..

[WhopperPlate]

500k pot with 910k in parallel is 320kohms
500k pot with 1M in parallel is 333 kohms
500k pot with 1M8 in parallel is 391 kohms..

A) have fun trying out different composition resistors . This is going to be one more variable . Paralleling different composition components for varying tonal effects was a voicing technique utilized by Ken Fisher . With caps it’s fun to try a sozo mustard with a orange drop for starts

B) easier for myself to get closer to the exact value you want with a sharp razor. If you have a bag of 1000 resistors and the time to sort through them all for what you want then that’s always an option.