Dumble Overdrive 102/183—Critical?

[ViperDoc]

Purists, I accept your scorn without judgment.

In your opinion, what does the Dumble overdrive circuit do for your Dumble sound that an overdrive pedal in the loop can’t/won’t? Interested in your thoughts.

The only ODS style amp I own is a Fuchs ODS II, and I don’t find myself needing the overdrive. The stock channel is fabulous by itself IMO. I am unaware whether it closely resembles a known Dumble or not. I am going to build a 102, but thought I might pare it down a bit and remove the FET and the OD, as well as the PAB and use external devices to get there as needed. All recommendations/thoughts welcome. Thanks.

[dorrisant]

Then you are building a Small Special... Also very nice. I believe the SS can be just fine for your purpose. Maybe build it with a tube loop.

[ViperDoc]

Then you are building a Small Special... Also very nice. I believe the SS can be just fine for your purpose. Maybe build it with a tube loop.

That's a very good idea...Thanks!

[WhopperPlate]

Kinda depends on whose building the amplifier… I know there are pedals that sound better than some tube overdrive amplifiers …but the question then becomes why play that amp at all?

In my humble opinion nothing beats a well tuned high voltage valve driven overdrive, and the ODS can be tuned to accomplishes most sounds easily . A million variables to consider , but once you find the right match of gear you can just plug right in without effects and call it a day, which btw isn’t anything I thought I would ever say growing up gigging with complex rigs .

Might be more trouble to get right for some than most want to deal with. Seems like the majority of builders toying with their personal ODS type amplifiers are still tweaking them after years and years . Cork sniffing can take up a lot of time , but hey why else would you build an ODS if you weren’t that picky already?

[ViperDoc]

Fair enough. The garden variety ODS seems to offer about anything you could ask for except for time and space, so point taken. Cheers.

[Guy77]

Kinda depends on whose building the amplifier… I know there are pedals that sound better than some tube overdrive amplifiers …but the question then becomes why play that amp at all?

In my humble opinion nothing beats a well tuned high voltage valve driven overdrive, and the ODS can be tuned to accomplishes most sounds easily . A million variables to consider , but once you find the right match of gear you can just plug right in without effects and call it a day, which btw isn’t anything I thought I would ever say growing up gigging with complex rigs .

Might be more trouble to get right for some than most want to deal with. Seems like the majority of builders toying with their personal ODS type amplifiers are still tweaking them after years and years . Cork sniffing can take up a lot of time , but hey why else would you build an ODS if you weren’t that picky already?

So true, I am always tweaking after each build to get the sound that I like! These amps are all about the cork sniffing but that's what makes them so special. Nothing sounds better for a customer than a bespoke build.

Cheers
Guy

[erwin_ve]

I really dig my 2nd gen hybrid ODS, It is untouched on the inside for 5 yrs now, no corksniffin, although I did have my fair share.
Having build a lot amps incl #102 made me realize the #102 is not my cup of tea, I can appreciate the SSS002 , Bluesmaster and 2nd gen hybrid more.
Thats the merit of building amps yourself.

[WhopperPlate]

I really dig my 2nd gen hybrid ODS, It is untouched on the inside for 5 yrs now, no corksniffin, although I did have my fair share.
Having build a lot amps incl #102 made me realize the #102 is not my cup of tea, I can appreciate the SSS002 , Bluesmaster and 2nd gen hybrid more.
Thats the merit of building amps yourself.

5 years! That’s gotta be some kind of world record ! Lol all kidding aside, cant overlook the fact it took a couple of amps to get what you really wanted.

I think I rebuilt my first amplifier like four times before I had the competence and experience to finish something that was acceptable and reliable lol. That wasn’t an ODS, and I wouldn’t have wanted it to be. Much easier to learn feel the nuances learning in simple circuits “ The merits of building yourself “

As an aside, i too find 102 generally isn’t my cup of tea or as compatible with most styles like other iterations. I like the low plates .

It helps to listen to sound clips of the real deal and get a real idea of the original intention . Doesn’t beat the experience if building them all, but it’s cheaper .

[Colossal]

Erwin & Charlie,

What was it about 102 that you didn't care for?

[ViperDoc]

I really dig my 2nd gen hybrid ODS, It is untouched on the inside for 5 yrs now, no corksniffin, although I did have my fair share.
Having build a lot amps incl #102 made me realize the #102 is not my cup of tea, I can appreciate the SSS002 , Bluesmaster and 2nd gen hybrid more.
Thats the merit of building amps yourself.

I just listened to your sound cloud clip from several years ago, what a great example. Nice playing, too! That 9b5(?) chord is very 007, sounds cool.

Is it fair to say the 2nd Gen Hybrid overdrive is a bit more hard-clipping than, say, the 102? The SSS is clearly a high headroom sparkle machine. The Bluesmaster sounds warmer to me, all based on what I can find on YouTube, of course. So many Dumbles, so little time...

[WhopperPlate]

Erwin & Charlie,

What was it about 102 that you didn't care for?

I will disclaimer myself by stating that I have not built a truly component accurate clone like so many of the more experienced individuals on this forum .

Having said that , I really enjoy the compression and sustain of the OD, when I both hear the real amp and play a circuit clone, and the cleans had a fast acoustic feel, but I can never vibe with the brighter harmonic overtones when it cleans up, and it kinda has a bouncier feeling that doesn’t punch as hard in the mids as a low plate design . The frequency shift has a certain “hi fidelity “ to my ears that is more suitable for RF, just not me.

In the end though I am a simpleton. I like simple old vintage circuits with classic values and classic sounds, and the low plate designs make me feel more at home .

Cheers

[erwin_ve]

Erwin & Charlie,

What was it about 102 that you didn't care for?

Too much mids, low end overtone smear. High plate skyliner . I absolutely love Robben Fords tone on the Jing Chi album, but experiencing the above things while playing, I just can't bond. Fwiw I like #102 with a .047 mid cap a lot more, but that's not a #102 anymore.

[erwin_ve]

I really dig my 2nd gen hybrid ODS, It is untouched on the inside for 5 yrs now, no corksniffin, although I did have my fair share.
Having build a lot amps incl #102 made me realize the #102 is not my cup of tea, I can appreciate the SSS002 , Bluesmaster and 2nd gen hybrid more.
Thats the merit of building amps yourself.

I just listened to your sound cloud clip from several years ago, what a great example. Nice playing, too! That 9b5(?) chord is very 007, sounds cool.

Is it fair to say the 2nd Gen Hybrid overdrive is a bit more hard-clipping than, say, the 102? The SSS is clearly a high headroom sparkle machine. The Bluesmaster sounds warmer to me, all based on what I can find on YouTube, of course. So many Dumbles, so little time...

Thanks! I think the tonestack and low plate are the ticket for me. The Bluesmaster with v30 speaker: also less mids. Sss002, classic tonestack, low plate, less mids compared to the ODS #102.

[ViperDoc]

I see that a 2nd generation ODS has the late 70s tone stack and is a chronological designation. If you don't mind my ignorance, what is a "Second Generation Hybrid" exactly? I can’t seem to find much about it. Thanks.

Edit: Found this.

https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29845

[Colossal]

Having said that , I really enjoy the compression and sustain of the OD, when I both hear the real amp and play a circuit clone, and the cleans had a fast acoustic feel, but I can never vibe with the brighter harmonic overtones when it cleans up, and it kinda has a bouncier feeling that doesn’t punch as hard in the mids as a low plate design . The frequency shift has a certain “hi fidelity “ to my ears that is more suitable for RF, just not me.

In the end though I am a simpleton. I like simple old vintage circuits with classic values and classic sounds, and the low plate designs make me feel more at home .

Cheers

Too much mids, low end overtone smear. High plate skyliner. I absolutely love Robben Fords tone on the Jing Chi album, but experiencing the above things while playing, I just can't bond. Fwiw I like #102 with a .047 mid cap a lot more, but that's not a #102 anymore.

Interesting, gents. Thanks for your throughts.

Charlie, yes, "hi-fi" is a good descriptor of 102, but not hi-fi in a sterile, or disparaging way. It's just very precise. I get that exactly. Erwin, I know what you mean, although I find the amp works very well with Les Pauls. I have no issue dialing in a rich tone. That said, I run the Gain up to about 1pm just to get a little bit of fur on the edge of the clean, Bass to maybe 10am (with a pot tuned to 400k), Mids to noon, and Treble to about 1pm, Master on 3 (for lower volume playing) and Presence at about 1-2pm, Bright on, and it's pretty great. But yes, very precise. I do love what the Presence adds. Depending on where the entrance trimmer is set and then setting the Drive and OD Volume to about 10am or so, the overdrive gives a rich, harmonic haze with nice grunt and chirp. The low end holds together very, very well with these amps and just seem to be more of everything, the more you turn them up.

As I mentioned to Viperdoc, I could be quite happy with just the clean channel and no overdrive. Mid Boost and Jazz can be quite fun, but I could live without them.