talbany wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:01 pm
Here is an amp that actually went to John (notice the measurements of all the caps) and the choice of Metal film caps (NTE's) over the Carbons in the others.This was no doubt a voicing john preferred. It would be nice to see the rest of this amp to get John's complete preferred parts list.
I've spoken to TR extensively about part choice, and actually, they used of NTEs over the Dralorics in that amp you posted (a Custom Reverb Sig. built for John, I believe in 2005-ish, built before his Sig amps), and it was not a voicing choice. Rather, it was simply a matter of chronology. I was told TR did not acquire their stash of Dralorics until shortly after that amp was built, and they used NTEs in that amp because NTEs where what they were using at the time. It was not a voicing decision; they simply used what they had at the time. I believe they acquired their Dralorics around 2006. Bill really preferred Dralorics over the NTEs when they acquired them (he claims they're a bit brighter), and so TR started phasing the Dralorics to replace the NTEs on most of their amps post-2006 ish. Their stash of Dralorics has dwindled due to using them heavily for more than a decade, so current TR amps use most KOA Speer new production, occasionally a Draloric or two in key spots if the builders have them lying around. Mayer's personal Sig amps (built in 2007) use almost entirely the Draloric CFs and NOS Sprague 6PS orange drops for caps.
Great info!
The JM Sig I had the most time with had a silver USA Accutronics 9AB2C1B tank and purple Daytona RCA cables. I can't find any right angle Daytona cables so if anyone here has a source, please do share! I can only find straight connectors and long lengths.
Great sounding tank! (Accutronics 9AB2C1B) Long tank, 3 spring and medium decay.
That's actually the tank I use in some of my builds.
If I cant find that one I use the MOD version with same specs.
How are you getting along with that long decay reverb? I think Guy used a medium decay tank in his JM build.
Not sure yet. I got delayed a bit in finishing the build. I hope to wire the rest of the heaters tonight and then run startup procedure Saturday morning. I'm planning to form the caps and bring voltage up slow. Even if all goes well it'll take a while.
But I'll let you know on the tank.
-Dan
Great looking build Dan!
I have built several of these and tried a short decay and medium decay and long decay tank. I ended up liking the medium decay the most just because I liked how the reverb would not trail on too long. But then to each there own.
I also ended up putting a boost circuit into the ones I built that people really liked.
I took the ground of the Bass pot and Mid pot and placed them on a switch with a 3M resistor. It had the same effect as putting an EP booster pedal in front of the amp, which is my favorite boost for this amp.
I tried a bunch of resistors and the 3M was the winner!
Guy
Thanks Dan. I realized after you posted that you had only just finished assembly, so my post was a bit early.
Guy, I watched the demo of your amp and it sounds great. Those Celestion Golds were killer! I did like the medium decay in your demo. Plenty of reverb for me and yes, I don't like too much metallic trail, just a soft decay. I like a little space but want it to stay out of the way.
All wired up. Hooked up to a variac and light bulb limiter now. I ran it up to 120 VAC on standby with no issues. Doing same thing now off of standby before adding tubes, etc. Going nice and slow to form the caps.
-Dan
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Everything went well and the amp fired right up no issues. I did have to swap the OT leads. It wasn't really howling but a pretty low frequency resonance running off into feedback.
Not sure if I mentioned tubes earlier in the thread? I have never used TAD tubes before, so figured I would get a full set for this amp and see what I thought. V1 is the 7025 Highgrade Premium; V2, V4, and V5 7025 S Mullard Premium; V3 12AT7 Premium; V6-V9 6L6WGC-STR. They sound pretty nice. I'm going to burn in the amp over the next week. I may roll a few NOS preamp tubes in V1 to see what's what.
I like the Long decay 3 spring tank. I understand why people say this is the best reverb/best clean amp. I have not played an SSS and it is on my list to build eventually, but this should make anyone looking for a clean tone happy. Even with Reverb Send and Return Maxed, it's not too crazy. You can dial in very usable tones with the reverb controls around 40-70%.
My preamp voltages are all a bit high, but the power amp looks right on for Taylor's layout.
Good choice on the tubes IMO..Short bottle TAD's are wonderful in a clean type amp like the Wonderland.
I Think of the Wonderland as an ODSR ser#004 w 3 tube reverb with a classic stack (great for single coils) Basically an ODSR without Overdrive.
The SSS with the Hi/Lo Filters and PI driver is a completely different animal! So since you already have the Wonderland i would do something else with the SSS. Build an #002 type. I would also do something like 4X KT-88's..So in the end the Reverb would be different (Better IMO) the step filters and the PI Driver and 150 watts. The only problem I see with building this amp is you will probably play it more than the Wonderland.
#002 is an awesome pedal platform and sounds great even at low volumes. I play mine in small clubs all the time and it has 4XKT-100''s..The huge sound these amps have even at low volumes makes me laugh and is a total departure from any other guitar amp I have played and is in a completely different zip code than an ODSR or Wonderland or Fender Twin etc..etc..
let me know if you have any questions
Love this amp!!
Tony
" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Thanks Tony! If I change my first dropping resistor to 3k3 do you think that would line up the preamp voltages better? They seem to be about 5-10% high. I am also considering changing the treble cap to 390pf. I'm going to try to clip in a 47p in parallel today to see.
By the way, everyone says this amp is so dark. Maybe it's because my preamp voltages are high, but I do not find it dark at all. I would say this amp sounds like what everyone wishes their blackface fender sounded like balanced...with no ice pick highs. There is a lot of low and low-mid content but in a good way.
There is definitely an SSS #002 in my future. But probably a year or two away. I have 3 ODS chassis from Taylor sitting in a box and waiting for me.
I am planning to build a D'Lator next and then my first ODS towards the end of the year. I am thinking of a Highplate Skyliner first (I already have most of the r/c parts from Jelle), a Bluesmaster HRM, and a 2nd Gen Hybrid type amp (planning to start collecting parts for this). Ben Harper led me down the Dumble path years ago...just took me a while to start building. So, I would really like to build a #093 clone too (Transition Gen Classic) since there is not really any info available about his green tolex silver chassis 7th Gen combo. At least not publicly that I am aware of.
Hopefully we will be moving into a bigger house in the next year so, which will help the guitar/amp/pedal addiction. There is just no space in our little 2 bedroom from the 40s (with original electric).
dbharris wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:09 pm
Thanks Tony! If I change my first dropping resistor to 3k3 do you think that would line up the preamp voltages better? They seem to be about 5-10% high. I am also considering changing the treble cap to 390pf. I'm going to try to clip in a 47p in parallel today to see.
By the way, everyone says this amp is so dark. Maybe it's because my preamp voltages are high, but I do not find it dark at all. I would say this amp sounds like what everyone wishes their blackface fender sounded like balanced...with no ice pick highs. There is a lot of low and low-mid content but in a good way.
There is definitely an SSS #002 in my future. But probably a year or two away. I have 3 ODS chassis from Taylor sitting in a box and waiting for me.
I am planning to build a D'Lator next and then my first ODS towards the end of the year. I am thinking of a Highplate Skyliner first (I already have most of the r/c parts from Jelle), a Bluesmaster HRM, and a 2nd Gen Hybrid type amp (planning to start collecting parts for this). Ben Harper led me down the Dumble path years ago...just took me a while to start building. So, I would really like to build a #093 clone too (Transition Gen Classic) since there is not really any info available about his green tolex silver chassis 7th Gen combo. At least not publicly that I am aware of.
Hopefully we will be moving into a bigger house in the next year so, which will help the guitar/amp/pedal addiction. There is just no space in our little 2 bedroom from the 40s (with original electric).
-Dan
Dan
Generally the higher the voltage on V1 the brighter the sound and tighter the bass response is. I generally shoot for right around 200 V on V1,however some people might like the slightly softer sound at around 185. Also you can get as much as a 10V swing when rolling tubes I also recommend trying to keep both triodes fairly matched within 5 V of V1a and V1b..IMO let your ears decide
As far as the treble cap goes? Some people prefer a slightly larger cap in the Classic stack due to the .047 mid cap can get a little too scooped in the mids.So by upping the value your letting in more of the upper mid frequencies so depending on how articulate you want those upper mids to be will determine which cap best suits your setup and ears..BTW I have never built a Wonderland however by looking at the schematic i see really nothing that leads me to believe that the amp would be considered "Dark sounding"..Perhaps more scooped vs their skyliner counterparts is what they are talking about..(bright sounding for me is considered elusive terminology )
I've never been a big fan of spring reverb in amps with Overdrive and although I've reversed engineered and have played several ODSR's I've never built one mainly for this reason..A small room or a little slap back from my Dumbleator has always been my flavor of cheese.FWIW the amps that really stick out for me have been SSS#002 and the Music man Low Plate Skyliner ODS and I suppose the next would be the staple High Plate Skyliner being the most popular here..These amps for me better represent the "Dumble Sound" are known for and although the rest are cool they are what I would consider the generational prototypes on the way to these later ODS's.
Amps like the Bluesmaster or Ripper designed and built for a more specific aggressive type sound..So I've always been start with the Landmark amps and if you want work your way back..The Bluesmaster is a wonderful amp I just never consider it the "classic" Dumble sound
in the end it all comes down to the right tool for the right job and personal taste and having fun building..
BTW. Refresh my memory? is this Ben Harpers #093?
Hoping you can get in a bigger shop too!
Tony
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" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
dbharris wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:09 pm
Thanks Tony! If I change my first dropping resistor to 3k3 do you think that would line up the preamp voltages better? They seem to be about 5-10% high. I am also considering changing the treble cap to 390pf. I'm going to try to clip in a 47p in parallel today to see.
By the way, everyone says this amp is so dark. Maybe it's because my preamp voltages are high, but I do not find it dark at all. I would say this amp sounds like what everyone wishes their blackface fender sounded like balanced...with no ice pick highs. There is a lot of low and low-mid content but in a good way.
There is definitely an SSS #002 in my future. But probably a year or two away. I have 3 ODS chassis from Taylor sitting in a box and waiting for me.
I am planning to build a D'Lator next and then my first ODS towards the end of the year. I am thinking of a Highplate Skyliner first (I already have most of the r/c parts from Jelle), a Bluesmaster HRM, and a 2nd Gen Hybrid type amp (planning to start collecting parts for this). Ben Harper led me down the Dumble path years ago...just took me a while to start building. So, I would really like to build a #093 clone too (Transition Gen Classic) since there is not really any info available about his green tolex silver chassis 7th Gen combo. At least not publicly that I am aware of.
Hopefully we will be moving into a bigger house in the next year so, which will help the guitar/amp/pedal addiction. There is just no space in our little 2 bedroom from the 40s (with original electric).
-Dan
Dan
Generally the higher the voltage on V1 the brighter the sound and tighter the bass response is. I generally shoot for right around 200 V on V1,however some people might like the slightly softer sound at around 185. Also you can get as much as a 10V swing when rolling tubes I also recommend trying to keep both triodes fairly matched within 5 V of V1a and V1b..IMO let your ears decide
As far as the treble cap goes? Some people prefer a slightly larger cap in the Classic stack due to the .047 mid cap can get a little too scooped in the mids.So by upping the value your letting in more of the upper mid frequencies so depending on how articulate you want those upper mids to be will determine which cap best suits your setup and ears..BTW I have never built a Wonderland however by looking at the schematic i see really nothing that leads me to believe that the amp would be considered "Dark sounding"..Perhaps more scooped vs their skyliner counterparts is what they are talking about..(bright sounding for me is considered elusive terminology )
I've never been a big fan of spring reverb in amps with Overdrive and although I've reversed engineered and have played several ODSR's I've never built one mainly for this reason..A small room or a little slap back from my Dumbleator has always been my flavor of cheese.FWIW the amps that really stick out for me have been SSS#002 and the Music man Low Plate Skyliner ODS and I suppose the next would be the staple High Plate Skyliner being the most popular here..These amps for me better represent the "Dumble Sound" are known for and although the rest are cool they are what I would consider the generational prototypes on the way to these later ODS's.
Amps like the Bluesmaster or Ripper designed and built for a more specific aggressive type sound..So I've always been start with the Landmark amps and if you want work your way back..The Bluesmaster is a wonderful amp I just never consider it the "classic" Dumble sound
in the end it all comes down to the right tool for the right job and personal taste and having fun building..
BTW. Refresh my memory? is this Ben Harpers #093?
Hoping you can get in a bigger shop too!
Tony
Good info, as always. I did clip in the cap and I liked it but the difference was not huge. More articulate upper mids is a great description. If I end up swapping any other parts I'll change that. But for now I'm fine leaving the 330p.
Yes, as far as I am aware that is Ben's ODS #093 (formerly owned by and built for Carlos Rios). Brown suede head with matching 1x12 cab loaded with an EV speaker. Those pics were taken by Doug Roccaforte when he serviced the amp and removed the PI balance trimmer. Going from memory here...Ben has 4 Dumbles that I am aware of. One from David Lindley a 1st Gen snake skin covered head (I think Ben has the blue pilot light one), #093, a black felt (?) covered combo, and the silver face green combo HAD built for him I think it has a celestion CL 80 or 100 in it.
By the way David and Ben's lap steel setups are probably as different as a Strat/Les Paul would be (in different ways of course). With David tending to play short scale high output single coil pickup lapsteels and Ben playing mostly 25in scale dual humbuckers with PAF style pickups. Seems to work well though!
dbharris wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:09 pm
Thanks Tony! If I change my first dropping resistor to 3k3 do you think that would line up the preamp voltages better? They seem to be about 5-10% high. I am also considering changing the treble cap to 390pf. I'm going to try to clip in a 47p in parallel today to see.
By the way, everyone says this amp is so dark. Maybe it's because my preamp voltages are high, but I do not find it dark at all. I would say this amp sounds like what everyone wishes their blackface fender sounded like balanced...with no ice pick highs. There is a lot of low and low-mid content but in a good way.
There is definitely an SSS #002 in my future. But probably a year or two away. I have 3 ODS chassis from Taylor sitting in a box and waiting for me.
I am planning to build a D'Lator next and then my first ODS towards the end of the year. I am thinking of a Highplate Skyliner first (I already have most of the r/c parts from Jelle), a Bluesmaster HRM, and a 2nd Gen Hybrid type amp (planning to start collecting parts for this). Ben Harper led me down the Dumble path years ago...just took me a while to start building. So, I would really like to build a #093 clone too (Transition Gen Classic) since there is not really any info available about his green tolex silver chassis 7th Gen combo. At least not publicly that I am aware of.
Hopefully we will be moving into a bigger house in the next year so, which will help the guitar/amp/pedal addiction. There is just no space in our little 2 bedroom from the 40s (with original electric).
-Dan
Dan
Generally the higher the voltage on V1 the brighter the sound and tighter the bass response is. I generally shoot for right around 200 V on V1,however some people might like the slightly softer sound at around 185. Also you can get as much as a 10V swing when rolling tubes I also recommend trying to keep both triodes fairly matched within 5 V of V1a and V1b..IMO let your ears decide
As far as the treble cap goes? Some people prefer a slightly larger cap in the Classic stack due to the .047 mid cap can get a little too scooped in the mids.So by upping the value your letting in more of the upper mid frequencies so depending on how articulate you want those upper mids to be will determine which cap best suits your setup and ears..BTW I have never built a Wonderland however by looking at the schematic i see really nothing that leads me to believe that the amp would be considered "Dark sounding"..Perhaps more scooped vs their skyliner counterparts is what they are talking about..(bright sounding for me is considered elusive terminology )
I've never been a big fan of spring reverb in amps with Overdrive and although I've reversed engineered and have played several ODSR's I've never built one mainly for this reason..A small room or a little slap back from my Dumbleator has always been my flavor of cheese.FWIW the amps that really stick out for me have been SSS#002 and the Music man Low Plate Skyliner ODS and I suppose the next would be the staple High Plate Skyliner being the most popular here..These amps for me better represent the "Dumble Sound" are known for and although the rest are cool they are what I would consider the generational prototypes on the way to these later ODS's.
Amps like the Bluesmaster or Ripper designed and built for a more specific aggressive type sound..So I've always been start with the Landmark amps and if you want work your way back..The Bluesmaster is a wonderful amp I just never consider it the "classic" Dumble sound
in the end it all comes down to the right tool for the right job and personal taste and having fun building..
BTW. Refresh my memory? is this Ben Harpers #093?
Hoping you can get in a bigger shop too!
Tony
Good info, as always. I did clip in the cap and I liked it but the difference was not huge. More articulate upper mids is a great description. If I end up swapping any other parts I'll change that. But for now I'm fine leaving the 330p.
Yes, as far as I am aware that is Ben's ODS #093 (formerly owned by and built for Carlos Rios). Brown suede head with matching 1x12 cab loaded with an EV speaker. Those pics were taken by Doug Roccaforte when he serviced the amp and removed the PI balance trimmer. Going from memory here...Ben has 4 Dumbles that I am aware of. One from David Lindley a 1st Gen snake skin covered head (I think Ben has the blue pilot light one), #093, a black felt (?) covered combo, and the silver face green combo HAD built for him I think it has a celestion CL 80 or 100 in it.
By the way David and Ben's lap steel setups are probably as different as a Strat/Les Paul would be (in different ways of course). With David tending to play short scale high output single coil pickup lapsteels and Ben playing mostly 25in scale dual humbuckers with PAF style pickups. Seems to work well though!
-Dan
Cool! Yeah I remember now Doug taking these shots it's been a long time..Looks like a stock Low plate Classic 33k V1a with the Accent/ presence.. Amp was built around 81 probably delivered in 82/83.These are tough amps to build IMO. The only advice I can give you on these L.P.C's is they are very parts finicky so try to stick as close to the ingredients as possible coax and all,otherwise they can get fuzzy and out of balance real quick I struggled with these amps for a while.
Good Luck!
Tony
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" The psychics on my bench is the same as Dumble'"
Tony, thanks for all the tips. I am looking forward to all the ODS builds.
The Wonderland is all dressed up and ready to rock. When I was moving stuff around to make room for the new amp I must've abused a cable on my pedal board...I have an intermittent loss of signal now that I have to chase down. Always something fun!
After I burn it in this week I'll roll some tubes. I have an RCA short plate (grey), a couple Hammond pulls long plate not sure of the make, a mullard (saving this for a Trainwreck build), and few different new tubes as well.
-Dan
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Colossal wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:16 am
Sweet! Very nice work! Looks sharp.
So you like the long decay reverb pan, eh? What speakers are you running?
Thanks! G12-65 speakers. Yes, I like the long decay tank. Only at the most extreme settings does the reverb overpower the signal. It is hard to describe but the reverb feels like a studio reverb. It is like it sits behind the note you are playing not on top of it. I find that even at higher reverb settings than I would typically use the reverb is more controlled.
By comparison that Mesa Amp is more or less a hot rodded blackface circuit. I can't have the reverb up past halfway on clean and a third of the way on overdrive or it becomes too much. But on the Wonderland you can have both controls up around 3/4 and it is still usable and very musical.
I don't think the amp is dark it just has a lot of low end which could be construed as a similar thing
I have a bypass for the cut control too which takes that out of circuit for that SSS/SRV type tone if you want with the NFB on switches too can add a bit of 'hair'.
I also have high voltages on my amp too so as Tony says that perhaps changes things tonally.
Enjoy your amp
M
p.s. I have the same old UK Marshall g12-65's in my cab too
)
I struggled with these amps for a while. 
