Clipping the first gain stage a lot

[Steveo]

Ive been playing with load line plotter and found most of my favorite amps bias the first stage mostly in the middle even if they use high anode resistors like 320k anode 2.7k cathode or 220k/1.8k. It looks like there would be a large voltage swing on this stage for these amps

But, Ive been thinking about hot clipping the first stage with a 220k anode 820 cathode followed up by a very cold clipped stage 220k anode 22ohm cathode then onto another hot 220k anode 820 cathode stage before the CF.

I can see what this looks like but does anyone with more knowledge know what this might sound like? Would it be too fuzzy from all the very assymetric clipping and high gain?

Also, if I decide to bias down towards the non linear grid curves from a large anode resistor 330k but in the middle with a 3300k cathode resistor. What would being in the non linear curves and low current of around 1 mA do? Ive read its more distorted around these non linear curves but they don’t describe the type of distortion? Thanks

[wpaulvogel]

First things first, how much input signal are you planning on applying to the first stage grid. A typical guitar will output approximately 200mV but generally about 100mV. Boost it, 500mV.
At 200mV grid input it’s going to be difficult to clip. You have to bias so close to grid current limit or cutoff that it’s unreasonable. The first stage usually outputs 5 volts which is before the voltage divider of the volume pot. It’s much easier to do what you want to do with the second stage. It’s going to be getting much more voltage swing at the grid which can be clipped by the bias setting.

[Steveo]

I've seen some recent amps with 470k/820 first stages, I don't know what their plate voltages are. Maybe there low just to make it clip there. I know some humbuckers get pretty high in the mV range but I'm not sure enough to still clip this first stage on there own. I guess even if it does clip, I'm not sure if it will sound good at the end. I'll have to try it out. Thanks

[roberto]

Hi, 220k into 22 Ohm it's not cold at all. You can ground the cathode and the result will be basically the same. Then you can give a voltage bias to the grid and things will change.
If you plan to overdrive your first stage by making it work in an unproper way, you will get no dynamics from the amp, just a continuous buzz.
Try to maximize dynamics of your amps, not distortion. If you want to overdrive the first stage, add a booster in front of it.

[Steveo]

It looks very cold when i look at it on this calculator but i might be entering it wrong. The amps i seem to like are more open and dynamic like you say. I think i will bias my first stage more in the traditional way. I can see a very distorted amp not sounding good when you crank it. Maybe the trick is getting it to plateau at the right volume you intend to play the amp.

[JD0x0]

I just don't see the merit in clipping the input stage on an amp when you can add as many gain stages as you want following the input stage, and clip those how ever much you desire.

[roberto]

Pushing the amp with a stomp box and then lower the gain has a characteristic sound that cannot be obtained otherwise, so pushing the first stage is something, but if the whole amp has dynamics, otherwise is useless and IMO detrimental.