Blues Deluxe to ODS #183 Thread

[pompeiisneaks]

I'll do some more testing later if I have time, I'll put in the old cable, remove the back etc, to try and see if I can reproduce. I may try my gibson with humbuckers that have a coil tap as well, as that guitar seems to get the most noise of mine.

One other oddity still.

I was wrong about the loop, the reason it wasn't working at all was a jack not fully inserted into my delay.

I can now get it back to the other fail state consistently.

If I have any effects in the loop, but they're disabled, it works just fine, if I engage any effect, it goes silent! Why? I don't see how it could be a wiring issue or the effects wouldn't work at all with anything connected right? Why would enabling effects disable sound?

~Phil

[xtian]

if I engage any effect, it goes silent! Why?

No power to the pedal!

[pompeiisneaks]

if I engage any effect, it goes silent! Why?

No power to the pedal!

They're both connected to a constant 9V supply that is working and showing their lights lighting up. This same setup works fine on other amps...

I thought that was the issue with the pedal when I brought it down to my demo area, so I swapped 9V battery and it still didn't work, but now I'm back on my pedalboard with power and a known good power setup. Or so I hope?

I'll try it with something else just to ensure it passes signal outside the loop though.

~Phil

[pompeiisneaks]

More troubleshooting finds less answers.

I've put the effects loop directly into the input and it works perfectly, ruling out cables, and the effects. Guitar -> delay -> reverb -> Amp Input

I've put that loop back into the effects loop, and if clean channel, no output with any effect engaged, full output with effects disabled. with OD channel engaged, I DO get some signal through but it's VERY weak.

Guitar -> Amp Input -> Preamp Out -> Delay -> reverb -> power amp in

wha?

~Phil

[xtian]

Just use a simple 1/4" patch cable to plug FX out into FX return. Should sound exactly the same as with no patch cable. If not, wiring error.

(I looked back in this thread, could not find a photo of the FX jacks.)

[pompeiisneaks]

Just use a simple 1/4" patch cable to plug FX out into FX return. Should sound exactly the same as with no patch cable. If not, wiring error.

(I looked back in this thread, could not find a photo of the FX jacks.)

I did, and it works fine. I wonder, though, how it should work if I insert just one jack or the other (I'm also starting to think I connected something wrong, but not sure yet.)

If I put a simple small 1/4" patch cable in the loop, it sounds the same as if it's 'out' of the loop
If I put a single jack into the preamp out jack, I still get signal through, I thought this should disconnect the signal no?
If I put a single jack into the power amp in jack I get no signal, BUT I noted that when I jiggled it a touch, it ends up making a bit of noise, I tried pulling it part way and suddenly I get MASSIVE feedback, and noise, like oscillation as well.

I seem to recall somewhere that the power amp in jack shouldn't be a switched jack, but I can't recall and I think I used one, and it's left unconnected I 'think'? Not sure I'd have to check.

At any rate, I do think I'll need to pull the back off and take a picture, to see what's going on there.

~Phil

[xtian]

Just use a simple 1/4" patch cable to plug FX out into FX return. Should sound exactly the same as with no patch cable. If not, wiring error.

(I looked back in this thread, could not find a photo of the FX jacks.)

I did, and it works fine. I wonder, though, how it should work if I insert just one jack or the other (I'm also starting to think I connected something wrong, but not sure yet.)

If I put a simple small 1/4" patch cable in the loop, it sounds the same as if it's 'out' of the loop
If I put a single jack into the preamp out jack, I still get signal through, I thought this should disconnect the signal no?
If I put a single jack into the power amp in jack I get no signal, BUT I noted that when I jiggled it a touch, it ends up making a bit of noise, I tried pulling it part way and suddenly I get MASSIVE feedback, and noise, like oscillation as well.

I seem to recall somewhere that the power amp in jack shouldn't be a switched jack, but I can't recall and I think I used one, and it's left unconnected I 'think'? Not sure I'd have to check.

At any rate, I do think I'll need to pull the back off and take a picture, to see what's going on there.

~Phil

I'd say, def, you have a wiring error. If you plug a cable ONLY into the FX OUT jack, amp should go silent. If you plug a cable (like your guitar!) into the FX RETURN jack, you should hear signal at the speaker. The FX OUT jack is a simple, tip-ring jack (although the #183 schematic shows a shorting jack and the shorting pin is not used). The FX RETURN jack is a shorting jack.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Plugging a cable into the efx send jack does not interrupt the signal chain. This allows you to use just the send jack as a preamp output, which is useful for a number of applications.

Plugging a cable into the efx return jack will interrupt the signal chain. Also, if you pick up the other end of the cable, so that you are not touching the sleeve of the plug, then touch the tip of the plug to your finger, you should hear the usual 60Hz hum, like you do at the amp’s guitar input.

Another useful test is to plug a guitar into the amp, and plug another cable from the efx send jack to the efx input of a different amp. You should now hear the guitar coming out of both amps.

[pompeiisneaks]

Okay unless I misunderstood, I was just told two opposite things:
xtian:

If you plug a cable ONLY into the FX OUT jack, amp should go silent.

jazzguitargimp:

Plugging a cable into the efx send jack does not interrupt the signal chain.

To be pedantic

FX OUT == EFX Send == PREAMP OUT
FX RETURN == EFX Return == POWER AMP IN

Just to make sure we're all on the same page.

I did use the #183 schematic to figure out wiring:

effects.png

I do believe I double checked this. I had two switching jacks, and I 'think' I didn't connect the switch to anything on the output, I'll double check and get some photo's shortly, gotta go down to the garage for my screwdrivers again

~Phil

[pompeiisneaks]

Here's a close up of the jacks:
Edit: helps if I actually attach it, second time:

Jacks.jpg

right is send/preamp out and left is return/power amp in.

I've confirmed with my DMM that the board named 'send' is connected to the preamp out TIP and the board named RETURN is connected to the power amp IN tip
I've also confirmed that with the dmm connected to both send and return on the board, in continuity mode that I have sound w/ no jacks inserted, sound with the preamp out jack inserted, but no sound with the power amp in connected.

If both are jumped, we get continuity as well.

~Phil

[norburybrook]

hmm yeah that's possible, he was using a warmoth parts tele, and had a fender HSS strat using single coils as well, but the strat I think were some nicer brand I can't remember.

I also did note that my other cable, albeit nice, did have an odd thing, it's a monster cable, but the tip of the tip sleeve part on one end seems to spin freely. I'm guessing it probably doesn't matter as under pressure in a jack it gets forced back into the base, and I'd also get like (0) signal through with a broken signal cable, but maybe that is still allowing for some noise to come in as well?

~Phil

un potted pickups ONLY tend to come from the higher end boutique makers as they're a handful at times because of things like this so mainstream manufacturers always tend to er on the side of caution and pot pickups well.


M

Oh interesting... hmm. I may have to ask him about that. He did say I think both were fancier pickups and he was thinking of reverting to fender stock on the HSS Strat.

~Phil

no worries..... it was just a thought that popped into my head

M

[xtian]

Lou is correct, I was wrong about the FX SEND (OUT) jack--plugging in a plug does NOT break the signal flow.

[pompeiisneaks]

Okay, I've resolved the 'issue' but I'm still not sure that I'm not 'wrong' in my wiring.

The OUT is the IN and reverse. I finally was like 'okay everything else looks right, so... I swapped leads and ti works fine.
BUT I get continuity on my board from the SEND and OUT and RETURN and IN but they're backwards?

~Phil

[pompeiisneaks]

Okay unless I'm mad, the board markings are backwards. Here's as best I can detail it what I get:

I connect the DMM (in continuity) to the "SEND" point on the board, with both jacks having the 'right' setup connected.

I touch the POWER AMP IN tip and get continuity and no beep from PREAMP OUT on my amp.

I touch the RETURN point on the board same as above.

I touch the POWER AMP IN tip and get no beep and touch the PREAMP OUT and get a beep.

I though SEND = OUT = PREAMP OUT
and RETURN = IN == POWER AMP IN

NO?

Just checking my sanity at this point. I can either resolder the leads or maybe just remove the jacks and spin them 180deg

~Phil

[pompeiisneaks]

Just confirmed the silkscreen is backwards/bad. The continuity test of the "SEND" point connects to the C44 input which is the "RETURN" on to the power stage
continuity testing the RETURN point on the silkscreen has continuity to the wiper of the master volume.

Bass ackwards

Something for your rev C board or at least build notes heheh.

~Phil