Did you guys read this?

[Guitarfetish]

I think the difference between making a product for sale at a profit and making an item for personal enjoyment is not being recognized here.

You can write "NIKE" all over your personal sneakers and wear them anywhere you want- If you try to sell them you have created a monetary transaction which is actionable.

Call your personal amps Trainwreck or Marshall or fender if you want- people do it all day long. (Admit it- how many of you have bought Fender decals??) Just don't make it a business.

[rfgordon]

In the somewhat recent lawsuit brought by Gibson against PRS for the singlecut model, Gibson had the burden to prove that a "reasonably educated guitar purchaser" could mistake a PRS for a Gibson, thus denying Gibson the revenue they would otherwise have earned through the sale.

Gibson has gone after many companies over the years, and most of the time the defendant made some distinctive (but sometimes subtle) change to the guitar's appearance. Often this is in the peghead shape.

Gibson eventually lost this battle to PRS, for various reasons. However, the point of all this is that when Gibson sues to protect a product, like the Les Paul, the company is an "ongoing commercial venture." Ken Fischer's heirs and family cannot claim that. Also, since they receive no revenue from the private sale of used Trainwrecks, they have nothing to lose if a consumer buys a real one versus a clone. The only recourse they could ever have, legally, is to defend the Trainwreck trademark, assuming it is, indeed, registered, and that the registration has been transferred posthumously.

Now, all that having been said, it would be pretty low down to try to pass off clones as the real deal. Does the guitar playing world need more Trainwreck-style or Trainwreck-inspired amps? Absolutely! I think Ken would agree. I think there are legitimate boundaries within which an ampbuilder who sells his stuff can use what Ken taught, but there ARE boundaries.

[gearhead]

I think the difference between making a product for sale at a profit and making an item for personal enjoyment is not being recognized here. . . . . . . Just don't make it a business.

That's what I meant. but didn't say as explicitly:

Basically, build away. Just don't name your amps Trainwreck.

Don't name a for-sale product a Trainwreck.

[dartanion]

The really crappy thing here is that anyone COULD use the TrainWreck name if they really wanted to. Ken's family or representative(s) would have to protect the trademark.

[Guitarfetish]

The really crappy thing here is that anyone COULD use the TrainWreck name if they really wanted to. Ken's family or representative(s) would have to protect the trademark.

Well yeah- You could market a soft drink called "Coke" tomorrow- It would be up to Coca Cola to protect it's trademark- which they would do in a matter of minutes. Their case is so clear they would get an injunction and seize your products- then sue you into the stone age.

[dartanion]

The really crappy thing here is that anyone COULD use the TrainWreck name if they really wanted to. Ken's family or representative(s) would have to protect the trademark.

Well yeah- You could market a soft drink called "Coke" tomorrow- It would be up to Coca Cola to protect it's trademark- which they would do in a matter of minutes. Their case is so clear they would get an injunction and seize your products- then sue you into the stone age.

Yeah, if you want to take on a giant! Which is completely foolish.

Now if someone like Randall Smith decided one day to market TrainWreck amps, he could plow over Ken's family pretty easily with his viscous attack-dog attorneys and deep pockets. Sad but true.

[Guitarfetish]

Yes very true- I love every year all of the employees of the BIG companies trolling Hall E at the NAMM show- looking for new ideas!! (For free)

[gearhead]

Did you ever think of feeding them some almost plausibe, but ultimately not doable turkeys? LOL.

[Doug H]

I don't have a problem with the web page linked at the beginning of the thread. The majority of the emphasis was on people building clones, sticking a "Trainwreck" logo on them and selling them on Ebay. I think that's wrong, and it doesn't bother me that he's trying to discourage that. He's just trying to protect the name, which is a valid pursuit IMO. Personally I couldn't stick a fake TW logo on something I built for myself at home either, names have meaning to me. But I won't get into that here. People can do what they want with stuff they build for themselves.

As for the "I feel sorry for..." comment- I interpreted that to mean people building things with certain parts and expecting immediate "golden tone", without tweaking or paying attention to other common sense issues with amp sound. This is part of the problem with the "clone" mentality, esp with this amp- 'Insert Tab A into Slot B' does not necessarily equal a good sound. It's the tweaking and dialing in that can take something from sounding lousy or mediocre to sounding really great.

I've heard a lot of wreck and wreck-clone clips. Some sound pretty horrid, some sound really great. I'm not a fan of all the "real" wreck clips I've heard either. IMO the best wreck clip I've ever heard was the Ginger clip that floated around 7-8 years ago. I've also heard an Express clone in person that sounded really great. People with little to no experience who build clones that sound lousy for whatever reason will either attribute that sound to the "real" amp without knowing better- OR, they will think that sounds "good" because they either can't discern good sound from bad sound or they have not heard "good" yet. That is sorry for them IMO because you don't learn how to get good tone by cloning- you learn by tweaking and tuning, given you have a solid design to begin with.

I think this is a great forum. I think it is great that people are learning about these amps and are learning to tweak and get good sounds. But don't take it too seriously with respect to the popularity of wrecks or the prices they demand. Wrecks were rare, high-priced, and in demand at least 7 years ago when I hung out at Ampage, before this forum existed. Steve Aloha put together his pdf of different possible Express schematics during that time period, due to the number of people building with this circuit. It's been a popular and rare amp for a long time.

I wouldn't take the comments from the linked website personally.