Complete Build VLOG For My Latest 102

[norburybrook]

Thanks 10thTX and Marcus for the help. The method works like a charm. I spent most of the weekend removing the caps testing and putting them back on....so much work! But I am glad I did it.

how many did you get right by accident? or didn't you mark them first

M

[Bombacaototal]

Thanks 10thTX and Marcus for the help. The method works like a charm. I spent most of the weekend removing the caps testing and putting them back on....so much work! But I am glad I did it.

how many did you get right by accident? or didn't you mark them first

M

Marcus, I did not mark them before so I cannot give you an exact number, but I did the un-soldering and marking then placing it back in stages as far as the circuit (ie first the stack, etc) and sort of knew where they were before while testing and for a good number of them they were reversed, specially on the phase inverter.

I am still missing the LNFB ones...but almost there.

It started as a very clean board and now not so clean after all the removal and adding back, but the most important is that it sounds right

...and I burned the outside of a resistor with the soldering iron towards the end...fatigue maybe...will replace it today because it does not look neat

[norburybrook]

Old thread I know, however.....I just received a letter from the USA today and it contained Charlie's resistors he sent on the 18th of September. Yes 4 months almost to the day they were posted. That's got to be some kind of record.

So at some point I will get round to actually swapping the resistors on my second gen .

Also with a new build #183 on the way I was checking the outer foil orientation on my orange drops and this batch of new ones it is very hard to hear any difference at all. the last time I did this there was an obvious quite and noisy orientation, now there's barely any noticeable difference.

I would assume this is due to better manufacturing techniques, if so would this negate the usefulness of getting them the correct way round?


M

[Bombacaototal]

Marcus, I encountered same difficulties with the latest batch of orange drops I got. Took me much longer to pick a side using the amp and the cable jack. Still was not always 100% certain

[martin manning]

Old thread I know, however.....I just received a letter from the USA today and it contained Charlie's resistors he sent on the 18th of September. Yes 4 months almost to the day they were posted. That's got to be some kind of record.

So at some point I will get round to actually swapping the resistors on my second gen .

If possible, make a sep where you can A-B the NOS and modern on V1, which should reveal any significant difference. I'll make a sketch of what I am thinking, which is using a DPDT mini toggle.

Also with a new build #183 on the way I was checking the outer foil orientation on my orange drops and this batch of new ones it is very hard to hear any difference at all. the last time I did this there was an obvious quite and noisy orientation, now there's barely any noticeable difference.

I would assume this is due to better manufacturing techniques, if so would this negate the usefulness of getting them the correct way round?

Well, a different manufacturing technique at least; one where there is not so much outer-ness and inner-ness of the foils.

[norburybrook]

Marcus, I encountered same difficulties with the latest batch of orange drops I got. Took me much longer to pick a side using the amp and the cable jack. Still was not always 100% certain

Raphael, yes I remember. it took me by surprise this time as before it was very obvious.

@Martin, OK , it will be a while I think as I've got my #183 to finish first and quite a bit of studio work on at the moment too I'm just so glad they've arrived. I'm still thinking of putting my second gen into just a head cab as well so I might do the whole thing as a complete project.


m

[martin manning]

Something like this for the A-B resistor test. You could also reverse the whole assembly and put all four resistor leads into the supply eyelet and use two pieces of wire to connect the center lugs to the plate leads.

[norburybrook]

Martin will those switches have the plate voltage going through them or are they isolated? i.e. will I need to switch the amp off and on before flicking the switch?


M

[martin manning]

Yes, they will have plate voltage on them, so to be safe switch to standby.

I think I like the reverse arrangement mentioned above better, since the out of circuit resistors are connected to DC. That would look like the right hand picture, with the supply eyelet on the left and the plate lead eyelets on the right. Each resistor and the wire would have another of the same, directly behind, and the switch center lugs would not be connected together. This is a temporary setup, so the resistor leads do not need pass through the supply eyelet.

[talbany]

This should make for an interesting test for sure however, what is the point of putting them on switches?.Why not just record the amp with the existing resistors then switch them out and do another recording with the new ones. Then Marcus can give us his review on the differences.

My reasoning for this is mainly because we are talking nuances here,subtle changes that might not be fully exposed captured or appreciated in an Mp3, you really have to be in the room. This is why I would much rather get your opinion on what you discover. The other thing is I wonder if putting those cheap toggle switches on the plate resistors might alter the sound or harmonic content and not in a good way. I could be wrong and it may sound fine just throwing it out there. In the end, I do think the new Dales will be a noticeable change but not so sure a recording will give you the full picture as this little experiment has been tried here before with our good friend Dogears a long time ago. Maybe Marcus can pull it off in his killer studio..

BTW.Marcus when you do your testing and review just a few things to listen for
1. Obviously, if they are brighter or darker
2.Clarity and depth of the note mainly centered in the midrange area
3 Harshness. Is the top end harsh and grainy or a buzzing sound riding on top of the note? (normally not picked up on recordings)
4 Harmonic content!.When you go to overdrive section and crank the gain does the top end compress any? also does the tone get brighter/darker/thicker (2nd order) or do the notes just start to get fuzzy?
5.Is the transition from clean to breakup smooth or abrupt when you lean into a note (clean channel cranked)?
6. Which ones just sound more musical to you?
Do these with both amp quiet and the amp cranked or louder than you would normally use it.

Good Luck and looking forward to your little sonic experiment.

Tony

[martin manning]

This should make for an interesting test for sure however, what is the point of putting them on switches?.Why not just record the amp with the existing resistors then switch them out and do another recording with the new ones. Then Marcus can give us his review on the differences.

Might have to noodle around to find a place where a difference is heard. Quickly switching back and forth is the best way I know of to confirm a difference in sounds.

My reasoning for this is mainly because we are talking nuances here,subtle changes that might not be fully exposed captured or appreciated in an Mp3, you really have to be in the room. This is why I would much rather get your opinion on what you discover.

See above, and I bet Marcus can come up with something better than an MP3! The recordings could be posted "blind" and then others can give their opinion on them before they are identified.

The other thing is I wonder if putting those cheap toggle switches on the plate resistors might alter the sound or harmonic content and not in a good way.

I think that's a real stretch :^)

...this little experiment has been tried here before with our good friend Dogears a long time ago.

And the result was? Is the discussion that posted here somewhere?

[talbany]

Martin
Not trying to give you a hard time you guy's can do whatever you want I am just giving you my perspective and opinion since I've done plenty of these resistor tests back and forth as well as have used the same exact ones Marcus just got and know how they perform. Since Marcus is a professional musician and a seasoned amp builder and probably has a pretty good set of ears IMO he doesn't need to switch back and forth to hear the difference, I didn't that's all I am sayin.Again do what you want!!
Recording Amp Mods.
IMO there are some changes that are done to an amp that show up obvious when you record them and others that are not so obvious like types of tubes or guitar cables or speaker cables or strings or the difference between an HRM or non HRM. I put plate resistors in that category. The only thing we might notice on a recording sent through the net and played on a laptop is one sounds a little brighter or darker than the other (at least when I listen to them) however I am hopeful though that Marcus will be able to capture his new plate resistors in all there glory in whatever format and your right let's decide.

You know how many posts and sound files Scott posted here.Maybe at some point I will try to go through all of them and find the one he did on plate resistors.
I don't remember the result this was 10 years ago. He recorded speakers/Amps even tubes guitars and microphones and in most cases had to struggle to hear the difference (on my laptop).

As far as the switch on the plates of preamp tube thing goes.I'll put it another way.I've never seen that done or did that myself,so there just might be a reason why

Better yet Send me your address and I'll send you a few and see what I am talking about
Tony

[norburybrook]

Morning all.

Quickly as I'm about to start work in the studio. I think I should profile the amp with one microphone and get a set of base settings as it is then do the same after it has been modified, that will be then there forever.

I will also play the amp over a day just to tine my ears in before I do the switch so hopefully and changes will be easier to feel/hear.

I was thinking about using a looper so the performance would be the same but that would give me any 'feel' of the amp and that's as important as overal tone too.


lot's to think about and I want to finish my #183 first so this thread will be on hold for a while I think.




Marcus

[martin manning]

Tony, maybe you can tell I'm a resistor skeptic at this point, but I would really like to find out if there is any discernible difference. I'll gladly take you up on your kind offer and run a trial... then we can see if the average joe on this side of the pond can pick up any difference. My ODS is a low-plate, 100k across the board. PM sent, and thanks!

Sounds fine Marcus, and I agree that your preference for one or the other might not develop immediately. Driving the amp with a looper is not the same as playing a guitar into it, but it would probably still reveal a difference. Of course the feel part of it, if there is any, will have to be discovered in real time.

[talbany]

Tony, maybe you can tell I'm a resistor skeptic at this point, but I would really like to find out if there is any discernible difference. I'll gladly take you up on your kind offer and run a trial... then we can see if the average joe on this side of the pond can pick up any difference. My ODS is a low-plate, 100k across the board. PM sent, and thanks!

Sounds fine Marcus, and I agree that your preference for one or the other might not develop immediately. Driving the amp with a looper is not the same as playing a guitar into it, but it would probably still reveal a difference. Of course the feel part of it, if there is any, will have to be discovered in real time.

You got it!. Really interested to hear your opinion as well. If it matters I had my amp for about a week when I changed mine out. PM sent.

maybe you can tell I'm a resistor skeptic at this point,

Yeah I know I was too.

Tony