Get fat, no buzz from HRM amp. Read if you are deperate...

[tubedogsmith]

[quote="G-Dorian"]OK, but on Jing Chi I still hear thick mids and a darker tone.
I don't mean this as any sort of argument. I'm only saying that Robben's HRM tone is darker to my ears.

I hear ya, I love that dark tone. When talkin this stuff you always have to remember the player ads lots of the tone with his hands. Some guys sound brighter than others and stay away from boomy notes and stuff. Everyone knows how bright a Tele bridge is and those old Fender Signature guitars he used to play were bright as hell to me when I played them too. Robben has fat sounding hands! If a good player knows his amp sounds shitty when he plays certain things he probably doesn't play those things.

[dogears]

Greg,

Nobody is accusing you of being wrong. I do know Robben has said he used a Strat for clean tones on his albums (Blue Moon). I saw the interview. History and live performances bear out that he doesn't use it for OD.

Posting your old Glaswerks clip also means nothing as the HRM circuit is totally revised and different now. You have no experience with HRM in the current form.

Although that might change soon as I had an interesting conversation I have to talk to you about....

[Tonegeek]

I just put that stuff into the Marshall stack on Duncan's TSC and it's a ton more mids (as expected from the mid and treble cap values). It looks like the mid control and treble control basically do the same thing (although the Treble control has way more range)...does it sound like they do the same thing Tonegeek? It even looks like the mid control now controls the treble without affecting the mids much at all.

yea its ugly! the point was it does bump the mids up which is what the HRM needs IMO. just try it... (dont bother rewiring your mid pot like a marshall - after a talk with Scott, it makes little to know difference) but try the other caps. The tone knobs are very subtle now, and they don't do the same thing even tho it appears that way in TSC. good luck!

I hear ya, I love that dark tone. When talkin this stuff you always have to remember the player ads lots of the tone with his hands.

+1 on that. I have sat in with people and could not believe how much the tone changed with me on their rig. Usually i felt like it was overly bright with me up there So, I voice my amps dark.

[dave g]

So, I voice my amps dark.

I don't think you're alone. Every Fuchs I've ever played was fairly dark, and no matter how I dailed them I could never get the sort of high end response I wanted out of them. Maybe it just had to do with the particular amps I played, or maybe that's the kind of sound most people like - I don't know. Personally I really like that high end sparkle/chime that comes with a brighter amp, and a lot of my tweaking has revolved around getting that sound without the fizz. I've managed to get it with both my D'Lite and non-HRM, but I've yet to fully venture into HRM territory. I just finished up populating the main preamp board for a bluesmaster this morning, and all the buzz lately about HRM harshness has made me both nervous and determined to get this thing up and running!

[dogears]

Again, here is the Bluesmaster clip I just did. Doesn't sound harsh to me. This is a bright guitar too. Amp sounded better in the room than the recording as well. HRM amps sound great IMHO. If they are tuned in correctly and the player likes the harmonic growl they offer. Clip is boost on and gain at 11 oclock.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/2007/BalladBM.mp3

[Tonegeek]

Again, here is the Bluesmaster clip I just did. Doesn't sound harsh to me. This is a bright guitar too. Amp sounded better in the room than the recording as well. HRM amps sound great IMHO. If they are tuned in correctly and the player likes the harmonic growl they offer. Clip is boost on and gain at 11 oclock.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/2007/BalladBM.mp3

Scott,
That is damn near perfect! Sure wish I could play through THAT amp with my guitar, just to get a reference. As is my amp with the known HRM values and hours upon hours of tweak time is not doing it for me. But Iwill soldier on for a bit and then go back to my own HRM values if all else fails. thanks for the excellent clip!

[rfgordon]

dogears,
Is there a schemo in the files that truly reflects what you played to record that clip?

[tubedogsmith]

I'd guess both the CA and 2Rock have the post OD tonestack and I don't hear any harshness here, RF wishes he had this tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8VaOg7 ... re=related

[dogears]

The Carol Ann is HRM w/Bluesmaster PI.

The TR is almost an exact Hybrid A clone if it is a stock V1 Sig. No HRM.

I prefer RF's playing and tone but Joe is a badass for sure.

I'd guess both the CA and 2Rock have the post OD tonestack and I don't hear any harshness here, RF wishes he had this tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8VaOg7 ... re=related

[dogears]

The clip was of the Brownnote BM44. Pretty straight forward stuff. The magic is in the HRM settings. Keep the mids low....

[mlp-mx6]

IME, also keep the bass not very high.

The 1M pot is almost an on/off switch, very low in the pot's travel. Somewhere in the middle of that "switch" setting is where I like it. Definitely not "off" (WAY too thin), but not quite all the way "on" either.

[tubedogsmith]

The Carol Ann is HRM w/Bluesmaster PI.

The TR is almost an exact Hybrid A clone if it is a stock V1 Sig. No HRM.

I prefer RF's playing and tone but Joe is a badass for sure.

I'd guess both the CA and 2Rock have the post OD tonestack and I don't hear any harshness here, RF wishes he had this tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8VaOg7 ... re=related

The clip you just posted has some of the CA sound for sure, the 2rock is a lot smoother. Will your amp stay tight on the low notes if you hit them hard? No one can deny that you have the RF thing down.

[Fischerman]

The 1M pot is almost an on/off switch, very low in the pot's travel. Somewhere in the middle of that "switch" setting is where I like it. Definitely not "off" (WAY too thin), but not quite all the way "on" either.

I much prefer lower mid settings like dogears suggests and I also had this bass on/bass off thing with my 1M-L HRM bass pot. Changing it to a 500K-A pot helped...now there is at least some small sweep around that on/off jump. On mine I set all the HRM pots pretty low (none are even at half way up).

EDIT: I came up with my 'version' of ODS-style-amp on my own but later found out that it's similar in some ways to the Carol-Ann...i.e. HRM amp that auto-switches on the PAB when you engage OD and with HRM tone controls on front panel...so it 'acts' more like a two-channel amp with independant channels. The difference being that Alan knows what he's doing and the CA sounds good.

[Tonegeek]

Whit,

Are you saying that you have the wrong OD network? You are missing a 120K there, between the 470K and trimmer. Total load should be around 690K then.

Unless you consciously decided to axe it. But, without it, you would certianly be prone to a thinner and buzzier sound.

My experience with the entrance load is the opposite - more resistance thinner, less resistance bassier. I'm tempted to start putting a 100k wired as a VR on future builds here to "tune to the iron" and find the spot that's the least buzzy with acceptable fullness.

I always assumed with the OD entrance that with more resistance the gain and highs would go down. I tested this last night and at first it appears the bass goes down, but the volume drop makes one think the bass went down. If you compensate for the volume, then it appears that some of the highs are being attenuated. I did an a/b using a 100k and 470k (between the 470k and the trimmer. It appears the same thing applies when you up some grid resistors. More resistance=less highs (due to interaction with Miller capacitance - thanks Gary!)

[Tonegeek]

I'd guess both the CA and 2Rock have the post OD tonestack and I don't hear any harshness here, RF wishes he had this tone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL8VaOg7 ... re=related

JB's tone and playing style makes me drool!

There is no doubt some HRM's sound great, that is why i chose to build one. Unfortunately I just havent got there yet, using suggested values. My HRM values give me a useable amp, but I would still like to get it right with out jumping ship to do it. I wonder how much the volume, room and amount/type of speakers has to do with it in regards to this clip (and the one on steelbender.com which is similar in the hugeness of tone - even with the cheap mike the quality comes through). I guess if you want THAT sound (whatever THAT is) you will do what it takes to get it. In my case I blame it on finances, otherwise I would have a 4x12 cab w/EV' or equivalent, a 1x g12-65 open back and build one each of 50w, 100w, HRM and non HRM all with spring clips so I could try every suggestion ever made about these things. Guess it depends on how committed you are. Maybe I just need to quit cutting corners and get the basics like the speaker cab so that I know it is not working against me. Same with the guitar. I love my strat but the best clips I am hearing are humbucker based guitars. All this stuff adds up to produce what reaches your ears. Guess I could sell one of my kids...