100w Bluesmaster HRM new build

[martin manning]

Lack of a foot switch won't matter. If you measure voltage to ground on the coil leads going to the rear panel switches you should see 12V in pedal position, and 0V in the manual position. Does that check out?

Sorry for the confusion above... Here are the BM relay connections as I see them. Note as shown it's in OD mode when the relay is not energized. You could swap NO1 and NC1, and NO2 and NC2 to reverse that.

[pompeiisneaks]

Yeah as Martin says. You should be able to get 12V at the switches after engaged as well, that will 'close the circuit' if you will. Maybe show us a picture of the switches as well? The way the schematic works there is it provides two alternat paths to close the circuit, the footswitch or the back panel switch.

~Phil

[martin manning]

You should be able to get 12V at the switches after engaged as well, that will 'close the circuit' if you will.

No, 0V at the switches when the relays are engaged... the switched coil leads are grounded to engage the relays.

[norburybrook]

everything is wired correctly. I have 12v on the center of the rear switches when in pedal mode and 0 v when in manual on both switches.


here's the switches:

DSC_1833.JPG

the black and white wires are coming from the relay coils anodes.

the bottom wires are all grounding at the regulator ground point

the top wires are going to the footswitch DIN


It's strange BOTH relays are exhibiting the same behaviour.

M

[martin manning]

Ok, so see if you can verify that the relays are switching. I'd measure ohms from the C to NO terminals (4 places) and see if you get zero or close to it when the switches are moved to Manual.

[norburybrook]

Ok, so see if you can verify that the relays are switching. I'd measure ohms from the C to NO terminals (4 places) and see if you get zero or close to it when the switches are moved to Manual.

I've measure between com 1 and the 2 NO and com 2 and the same NO's and moving the switch makes no difference to the impedance.


M

[talbany]

Marcus
Listen carefully!! you should be able to hear the relays clicking in (working mechanically).
Also if you put your finger on the top of the relay you can feel them switching contacts.
If you can't then they are not switching.I always start there and work back.Then PS then check traces then your wiring.

Tony

[norburybrook]

Marcus
Listen carefully!! you should be able to hear the relays clicking in (working mechanically).
Also if you put your finger on the top of the relay you can feel them switching contacts.
If you can't then they are not switching.I always start there and work back

Tony

Tony,

With these small Omron relays there's no mechanical sound/feel at all, they're completely silent. I can hear the FET switching that's a different make of relay.

There's no sound or physical feel.

it would be strange to have 2 out of 2 broken relays however!

M

[martin manning]

I think you have the polarity wrong. The diagram on the top of the relays says bottom view, so the diode cathodes and the positive supply leads should be on the coil eyelet that is on the same side of the boards as all the contact eyelets. Deja vu?

[norburybrook]

I think you have the polarity wrong. The diagram on the top of the relays says bottom view, so the diode cathodes and the positive supply leads should be on the coil eyelet that is on the same side of the boards as all the contact eyelets. Deja vu?

deja vu indeed.....

so I need to swap the diode polarity or the supply leads, or both..hang on.. if i do both we;re back to square 1?


M

[talbany]

Marcus
Listen carefully!! you should be able to hear the relays clicking in (working mechanically).
Also if you put your finger on the top of the relay you can feel them switching contacts.
If you can't then they are not switching.I always start there and work back

Tony

Tony,

With these small Omron relays there's no mechanical sound/feel at all, they're completely silent. I can hear the FET switching that's a different make of relay.

There's no sound or physical feel.

it would be strange to have 2 out of 2 broken relays however!

M

Marcus
I've used the Omrons they click..Your coils are not being energized!

[martin manning]

so I need to swap the diode polarity or the supply leads, or both..hang on.. if i do both we;re back to square 1?

Both, If you have the +12V going to the diode cathode now. Then the relays should pull in.

[norburybrook]

so I need to swap the diode polarity or the supply leads, or both..hang on.. if i do both we;re back to square 1?

Both, If you have the +12V going to the diode cathode now. Then the relays should pull in.

argh!! that means taking the front switches off as well to get the PAB relay board out.

So basically you are saying if you use OMRON relays then the AN boards/your boards are labelled incorrectly?

what's strange is I always use Omron relays and apart from the very first time I've not had this problem on the last 4/5 builds. the relays have always switched, I've just sometimes had things the wrong way round etc

I have 3 relays now and one is working, they're daisy chained so I presume I need to leave the one that's working alone and the swapping of the diodes and the +,- on th eother 2 wont affect that one.


I'm completely confused now.


M

[martin manning]

There are several Omron relays of this basic type. In the ones you have there G6A-234P-ST15-US, the coil terminals are polarized, where the part number in my drawing G5V-2-H1-DC12, is non-polarized. Murphy-proofing would suggest changing the drawing to work with either type.

[norburybrook]

There are several Omron relays of this basic type. In the ones you have there G6A-234P-ST15-US, the coil terminals are polarized, where the part number in my drawing G5V-2-H1-DC12, is non-polarized. Murphy-proofing would suggest changing the drawing to work with either type.

ah, got you, so I've used the no polarised ones then in the past.

I've swapped the OD relay wiring and you are correct it works perfectly now.

the PAB will take some time to remove and re wire.


Bugger!! I would have had the perfect build there!!

I shall report back later.

thanks guys.


M