Larry Carlton sound"S"

[j0k3335]

I just saw on TV a recent concert by Larry Carlton.

So he must use his Dumble latest version so "The Ripper" (correct? And the schema is not really known? still correct ? ).
The closest is in the Dumble files, the one with mainly the OD which is very different and the placement of the HRM ? ).

I prefer the sound BEFORE this new change! I find the sounds, now, much rougher, more aggressive, less soft and less singing than the previous!

Which schematic is the closest to his previous Dumble?

And what are your opinions (because of the HRM ? , ... ... ? )

[norburybrook]

Larry has been using a Bludotone for the last few years. Brandon copied his Dumble for him so he could have an amp in Japan, and amp in Europe and an amp in the US.

I saw Larry end of last year and he wasn't using his BLudotone or Dumble, he was using rental fenders and his sound wasn't great.



M

[mojotom]

I saw him a year ago and he was using his bludotones with a pedalboard in front of the amps (he got two but I couldn't say if he was using both).
I was a bit shocked when he used the amp OD with a delay from his pedalboard, before the OD.
I thought he wanted something simple to use and wasn't that concerned by the tone.
Playing was great.

I thought he was using a high plate classic in his golden years when his tone was unbelievable. At least that was what I thought when I tried the high plate classic topology but off course I could be wrong.

[groovtubin]

Read a LONG time ago, that Alex buil him a 4 X 6V6...His GRTST snd IMHO was on SOLID Ground, n i hear 6V6`s on that album....should be pretty straight fwd build, just tweak to you get it! 80`s Skyliner hybrid probably...... Heres. 70`s 100 watter, tweaked to get close sorta! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q-zcN_BQeCc

[j0k3335]

Larry has been using a Bludotone for the last few years. Brandon copied his Dumble for him so he could have an amp in Japan, and amp in Europe and an amp in the US.
I saw Larry end of last year and he wasn't using his BLudotone or Dumble, he was using rental fenders and his sound wasn't great.
M

Yes, I have already seen ( and listen ! ) him on his Bludotone, but, this time, I'm sure he was using his Dumble ( it was at the "New Morning" club in Paris )
I don't know if HAD change again something on the amp ... but I don't like this new direction

I saw him a year ago and he was using his bludotones with a pedalboard in front of the amps (he got two but I couldn't say if he was using both).
I was a bit shocked when he used the amp OD with a delay from his pedalboard, before the OD.
I thought he wanted something simple to use and wasn't that concerned by the tone.
Playing was great.

I thought he was using a high plate classic in his golden years when his tone was unbelievable. At least that was what I thought when I tried the high plate classic topology but off course I could be wrong.

As I'm a newbie here ,may you ( if it's not too boring for you ! ) give me an example of the High plate classic topology that Larry was supposed to use ( let say #1** or a topic where I can see a such schematic ).

I must admit that after reading ALL THE POSTS here ( YES ! ), I'm on a way to REALLY modified my Ceriatone Bluesmaster !!! T
he clean are not bad at all , kind of Blackface BUT lacking some sparkle ( ) [ it has the JM Mods meaning 100k/1k5 resistor in first stage ] but I really hate the OD with the HRM !
Even more that I "normally" have to use the PAB to avoid the first tonality stack : problem => I mostly use this amp now at home ( health problems ... ) and ... it's the MEGAPAB ! I let you imagine ... with the neighbourhood

So I wish (???) to go to the #124 with 100k or to a kind of "BluezMeister" to try to keep THESE clean AND the "USUAL" OD ... I don't know if it could be possible ???
If someone has a better idea, I will be really please to get some advices ( yes of course : sold this bluesmaster and buy another )
So my questions about Larry's Sounds was to know what kind of PREVIOUS OD topology , he was using instead of the HRM , just to get even more ideas for my mods .

If I have to forget these Clean and get back to more usual Dumble Clean TO GET BACK this OD sounds, I could imagine it !!!

[mojotom]

I would build a 102 as the amp is well balanced and later on convert it to 94 or 123 tonestack (classic EQ rather than skyline). The non-HRM OD is very nice to play and should get you in the ballpark (high plate).

You'd be able to test the two tonestack easily and choose your favorite. Then when you will have some experience tweaking that amp (easy) you can go back to the Bluesmaster (way more difficult to tweak).

The high plate non-hrm will be more rewarding and more typically Dumble than the Bluesmaster. You will have to compromise a bit on the clean but the OD is very nice on those and work great at low volume (maybe without a bright cap on the master or with a Dlator built-in).

It would be easy (like you did on your amp) to test later on 100k/1k5 and test the low plate configuration. You will then have a better clean but OD will be way less smooth and the amp will need volume more than the high plate (regarding home use).

[j0k3335]

I would build a 102 as the amp is well balanced and later on convert it to 94 or 123 tonestack (classic EQ rather than skyline). The non-HRM OD is very nice to play and should get you in the ballpark (high plate).

You'd be able to test the two tonestack easily and choose your favorite. Then when you will have some experience tweaking that amp (easy) you can go back to the Bluesmaster (way more difficult to tweak).

The high plate non-hrm will be more rewarding and more typically Dumble than the Bluesmaster. You will have to compromise a bit on the clean but the OD is very nice on those and work great at low volume (maybe without a bright cap on the master or with a Dlator built-in).

It would be easy (like you did on your amp) to test later on 100k/1k5 and test the low plate configuration. You will then have a better clean but OD will be way less smooth and the amp will need volume more than the high plate (regarding home use).

That's a lot of information ! thanks

I'm waiting for some components already ordered for those tweaks : for now, ... I go back to schematics , with your advices !

if someone have tried or have some info about the #124 with 100k or the "BluezMeister" , it could be a good complement to "find my way" .

I forgot to speak about the Bluesmaster PI which is 'special' ? Should I have to modify the PI too ? Anyway, in a first step, I will try with it and listen the results .

Thanks again

[norburybrook]

I've built about 5 Dumble amps now. I started with a #102, then a bluesmaster then I built a #124 low plate classic then skyliner then after going back to classic and back to skyliner I turned it fully into a #102. I never got on with the #124.

I have a Jm wonderland that I love though for cleans.


I really like the bluesmaster HRM, it's got a killer clean sound and I like the overdrive too for anything more than moderate gain or with a strat for example.


The #102 shines with humbuckers or with single coils it gives a lovely crunch.


If you go to my thread the #102 is a versatile amp, there a few sound clips of recent recordings with a few different guitars. that will give you an idea of what the #102 can do.

I'll add to this that all these ODS amps are very dependent on the person playing and their picking style. These amps don't suit some types of player, if you're one of those then you need to find something else and you'll just get frustrated with the Dumble. I have a friend who's a great professional guitarist and after about 4 years of trying to get the various Dumble amps to work he realised they weren't for him. He's now very happy with his modded plexi amps.

M

[j0k3335]

I've built about 5 Dumble amps now. I started with a #102, then a bluesmaster then I built a #124 low plate classic then skyliner then after going back to classic and back to skyliner I turned it fully into a #102. I never got on with the #124.

I have a Jm wonderland that I love though for cleans.


I really like the bluesmaster HRM, it's got a killer clean sound and I like the overdrive too for anything more than moderate gain or with a strat for example.


The #102 shines with humbuckers or with single coils it gives a lovely crunch.


If you go to my thread the #102 is a versatile amp, there a few sound clips of recent recordings with a few different guitars. that will give you an idea of what the #102 can do.

I'll add to this that all these ODS amps are very dependent on the person playing and their picking style. These amps don't suit some types of player, if you're one of those then you need to find something else and you'll just get frustrated with the Dumble. I have a friend who's a great professional guitarist and after about 4 years of trying to get the various Dumble amps to work he realised they weren't for him. He's now very happy with his modded plexi amps.

M

Thanks for these info ! I will listen your clips ( and re-read your topic ) .

Concerning the fact that "These amps don't suit some types of player" : the ONLY amp I play is ... my Fuchs ODS30 !
( and a little bit my tweaked Princeton Reverb II and not too much my concert II or Fender 75 : less direct to adjust ! With the Princeton, I plug the guitar ... and the sound is already here !!! ) !

So, believe me , I think I'm a Dumble guy

The only reason, I got this Bluesmaster is after hearing that it matches better strat on the clean, and I wish too, to try the ... HRM !

I only think that :
. or the Bluesmaster is not the Dumble clone for me and I had better to choose another one,
. or I still can tweak it to match the Dumble sounds that I have in my head and it will be ok

the grail for me would be its cleans on one side and a "classic" OD on the other side ... but maybe it's impossible / incompatible ( electronic topology ? )

BUT ... no way, I need my Fuchs, another Clone for some other Dumble sounds and some Fender for these "blackface" sound, "that's it for me"

... and I'm definitively a "Dumble" guy (clone of course , coz my banker is not a musician and not ready to give me a credit for a real Dumble ... )

Thanks for your help anyway

[norburybrook]

with a Dumble ODS you will always be fighting the clean vs OD sound, it's just the topology of the amp as the clean feeds into the OD so you can't separate the two. You have a accept that's how they work and live with it

It's fine in the studio as you can dial in the sound you want per track/part, it's live where this becomes more of an issue. and Even with master volume I find they need to be quite loud to start to really sing even on clean.

I generally roll off the tone control on my guitar when using the OD, that's how I've learned to make it work.


M

[j0k3335]

with a Dumble ODS you will always be fighting the clean vs OD sound, it's just the topology of the amp as the clean feeds into the OD so you can't separate the two. You have a accept that's how they work and live with it

It's fine in the studio as you can dial in the sound you want per track/part, it's live where this becomes more of an issue. and Even with master volume I find they need to be quite loud to start to really sing even on clean.

I generally roll off the tone control on my guitar when using the OD, that's how I've learned to make it work.


M

... and you learn it very well : I have listen to your vids and mp3 and really appreciate the different sounds

As previously said, I will re-read your topic and follow your advices. I HAVE to do something with this Bluesmaster head !!!

I will report my different experiment, mods, tweaks ... as soon as I will have my components ... and time

Thanks a lot

[Bombacaototal]

A video of Larry Carlton sounding very decent with a Hot Rod Deluxe. Although it is a lower end-ish amp it sounds great. https://youtu.be/IvgYLHdaLsI

Makes me think that maybe we (myself included) should play more and build less

But yes I know, it doesn’t really compare to the real deal
https://youtu.be/pfPs0VwhoYc

[67plexi]

I'm on my last builds playing more I lost count on amp builds it's that sick I think the key is on the ODS amps is balance on the clean Pab and OD channles.

[norburybrook]

yep, that's pretty bog standard fender clean though, not hard to get on any decent fender amp



MC