I'm Filled With The Need to Build!?

[The Ballzz]

Hi Folks,
Well after having two fairly successful builds (one kit and one scratch) under my belt, I find myself hopelessly addicted and feel the uncontrollable need to fire up my needle/soldering iron!

I keep reading regularly about the magic of the "Tweed Deluxe" and the only way I will ever be able to afford to experience that "magic" is to build one. I mean, even if I find one in some store, they certainly won't allow me to properly put it through it's paces and crank it up, etc!

I want it to be as close to authentic as possible to really see what all the hub-bub is about. Where to start?

Being a cranked up Marshall kinda guy, I'm not certain that this an amp I will want to keep and use regularly, so on one hand it seems logical to spend the $$$ to make it cosmetically appealing with an eye towards possible sale. IE: Tweed combo cab, authentic chassis/faceplates, etc.

On the other hand, I already have a fairly suitable chassis that could easily be used for either a head or combo style build (a head would likely be more useful for me) and sourcing a "small parts kit" and the transformers of my choosing could certainly save a few $$$, as well as not being locked into one or another vendor's idea of what is "close enough" to authenticity.

I do want to go with a turret board as opposed to eyelet construction, even though some folks have mentioned that the "Tweed Disease" sometimes cased by the slightly conductive, old style eyelet boards may be part of the magic!

I see a lot of back & forth discussion about the power transformer options, concerning going with the original higher voltage approach vs. the "lowered" 630v-0v-630v units. What were the actual voltages of the original and how do they relate to our current (pun intended) state of higher wall voltages in the range of 123VAC to 125VAC?

I really want this build to be truly representative of the supposed "glory" of plugging into a really good original unit.
Thanks Folks,
Gene

[xtian]

Hey, Gene. You've got it bad, all right.

The Tweed Deluxe demands some mods for modern tastes. Primarily, the bass needs to be cleaned up by using smaller interstage coupling caps to avoid "flubby" bass. Also, lower voltage PTs are good, because wall voltage is higher today. If you get it right, you'll love it, even from a Mashall-lover's perspective!

After you've got a couple builds under your belt, you'll see that ordering kits rarely makes sense (with the possible exception of RJ's TW kits!). You'll have some spare parts on hand, and order exactly what you need from a few vendors. Fender-branded transformers are inexpensive at tubesandmore.com, for example.

Good building!

[Phil_S]

I highly recommend "interviewing" several Deluxe's on youtube before you decide to build one. I have built two. I built the 2nd one because I figured there must be something wrong with it. The 2nd was about the same as the first. It turns out there's something wrong with me. I just couldn't like it even though I wanted to. I couldn't find the sweet spot. The controls all interact with each other in ways that no other amp does. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of good tones in a Deluxe. I'm just holding the flag of caution that not everyone likes them. Do your best to be sure it's what you want. It's tweedy. It overdrives easily.

[matt h]

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[ToneMerc]

My vote would be to go all out and do a 6G6B with a tweaked bass channel.

TM

[Mark]

6G6B with a tweaked bass channel.

Damn an amp I don't know tweaks for, what did you have in mind?

I love those blonde Fender amps!

[The Ballzz]

Thanks for the replies guys! I decided to at least go with a MojoTone chassis (on sale today $49) along with their 4/8/16 ohm output transformer, free shipping on all, as I regularly use different speaker setups in 8 & 16 ohms.

Phil S. Yep that is why I'm leaning toward building it in a cosmetically pleasing package to make it salable if I don't like it or can't use it.

Given that I gig regularly with a 5 watt amp, this Deluxe may be a little LOUD for my needs, which leads to some questions concerning power scaling type options. My lack of real understanding of what the MosFet does in a VVR/Power scaling/etc setup leads me to the first question:

Is the Mos Fet there simply to provide gradual/infinite variability of the scaling? Is there a simpler way to achieve, say a three or four step switch system that accomplishes the same goal, but at full/half/quarter/eighth power?

Thanks All & Happy/Merry Everything,
Gene

[matt h]

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[The Ballzz]

Well Sir,
I'm fairly familiar with the Hall, SkipzCircuits, Granger, Trinity and London stuff. My main hesitance surrounds what seems to be a high incidence of failure of the MosFets. There is certainly the possibility that I've misinterpreted the failures and that they were actually caused by improper use or installation. I would be very interested in learning more about successful use of the concept.

I am also aware of the need to either scale "ONLY" the PI/power section, while incorporating a pre phase inverter "Master" volume, scale just the power tubes with a post phase inverter master OR scale the whole amp and then add a cap or two in the early preamp to tame a few DC leakage issues. I will obviously want to build the amp stock and NAKED first to get a real feel for it's true capabilities, and then go from there.

Thank You Sir 4 Your Comments/Advice,
Happy/Merry,
Gene

[tony hunt]

There is not much space in the standard chassis for many more ideas. Even the height of turrets can cause you grief in the input area.

I ignored the 5E3 for way too long because I was going to build one of the earlier grid leak versions, but then I got a '58 that had been sitting nearly 30 years in storage. Beautiful amp for my use. I don't recall the voltages and am not at home as I type, but I made five moves from stock:
three pin cable,
replace the electrolytics,
replace the OT because it was a later Schumacher Princeton,
lower the 6V6 grid leaks to around 190k
retire the Jensen (cone with a very slight tear) and fit a Celestion Blue

These last two cured the tendency to "fart out" without having to replace the old Astrons.

A healthy amp with this circuit is going to be louder than a 5W.
In quieter situations I'll still run the amp volumes up high and take the guitar volumes down real low. Old P90s are good at that and Wilde PUs even more so.

[matt h]

(deleted)

[JazzGuitarGimp]

When I started researching VVR stuff, I looked for failures that aren't happening to newbie-to-solid-state builders... and didn't really find anything appreciable. Sometimes people do actually just have faulty components, whether it's a leaking coupling cap, a failed e-cap, a fuse that blows for no reason (it happens), etc. Manufacturing defects most likely. This accounts for the tiniest fraction of the "failures" you read about. There's a real danger with static when working with the semiconductors that tubes don't worry about most of the time. The fact that other boutique builders actually license the design and put it into production amps should be a tipoff it's safe. The static issue frying the mosfets is probably the single biggest reason newbz get failures.

The second issue is adequately heatsinking the 'fets to the chassis while also insulating them properly. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the next round of failures happened because of that.

I agree 100%. I put a vvr in my tweed deluxe build with no issues. But, I have worked with and in electronics for nearly 40 years, and I understand the issues with static discharge, isolation, and heat dissipation.

[Synchu]

I'm all with ToneMerc on this. I had vintage 6G6 on the bench for quick clean up and safety mods. One of the most amazing sounding Fender amps out there. Especially the bass channel.
Niki

[Mark]

I did a search for 6G6b mods, this what I found.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/6G6b.html

http://www.vintageguitar.com/13140/1964-fender-bassman/

http://www.tone-lizard.com/Bassman_Modifications.htm

[ToneMerc]

I'm all with ToneMerc on this. I had vintage 6G6 on the bench for quick clean up and safety mods. One of the most amazing sounding Fender amps out there. Especially the bass channel.
Niki

The G6B amp is the sleeper Fender circuit and to think Fender engineering labeled it unstable. My personal one sounds like a Plexi in blonde clothes. I started new thread.

Tm