Thinking about building my first amp

[Suit]

Thinking about building my first amp. I'm pretty good at soldering. And my father is a master electrician. But what is the best way to build one?
I'm thinking of a Liverpool from Ceritone. How easy is it to follow the instructions, etc.
Any place I should look for maybe a more identical clone?

[Phil_S]

Hi. I suspect you have missed the sticky post at the top of the forum called reading material on steroids. Start there.

It is good you have a master electrician on your team. However, building a guitar amp is very different from running a circuit in a building. There are many nuances and subtleties that aren't necessary in running power or even telephone or internet cable. This is because it is an audio device. Because of this, I'm going to suggest you probably aren't ready to build a Liverpool, though I'm sure it's been done as a first amp. I'm going to suggest something like the AX84 Firefly or Fender Champ are both 1st rate projects and more appropriate for a beginner. Like anything, there is a learning curve. Ramp up slowly so you can have a string of successful builds.

Good luck.

[lord preset]

Ceriatone provides a layout but no detailed assembly instructions and they make a point that their kits are unsupported, so unless you can build from from a layout only you might think twice.

As for better accuracy, RJ Guitars http://www.rjguitars.net has chassis, boards and transformers for Trainwreck amps and may be able to put together a great Liverpool kit for you. The Trainreck sections of this forum have all the information one would need to build one but again you would need to be able to build from a layout and schematic. I don't know that anyone offers a fully supported Liverpool kit with step by step instruction but ne might exist.

[matt h]

(deleted)

[RWood]

Not a bad suggestion but, If you try a larger, more complex circuit as a first build and it gets over your head, You'd be out a lot more scratch than if you started with a simpler Champ type build.
Just food for thought.

Randy

[statorvane]

As a minority opinion, build the amp you actually want.

I am thinking the same thing. If you are willing to persevere I do not see why you can't build what you want. Come for help if you need it, and have high resolution photos of your layout. This site has helped a lot of people over the years build what they wanted. Just remember the innards of these beasts can bite.

[Phil_S]

As a minority opinion, build the amp you actually want...

I can see the wisdom here. As noted, the Liverpool is a pretty large plate to digest. I suppose consuming it in small bites is an approach that might work, but maybe not with the Ceriatone kit. I'm not necessarily for or against living large and going for the gold ring in the bull's nose right away. (Opps, dated metaphorical reference to the carousel -- maybe lost on a younger generation.) I think, however, that before doing so, it is a really good idea to be prepared for the challenge.

We see people post for advice on this sort of thing from time to time and it is probably good for them to hear a variety of opinions along with some practical advice.

Whatever path is chosen, for a 1st build, buying a kit is likely the best way to go and often more economical. You know, the sum (of the $$$) of the individual parts is more than the whole kit often by quite a bit.

The real challenges to diving right into a Liverpool as I see it:
-Frustration factor due to complexity, or just the shear number of parts.
-Cost of extra parts to replace the ones that have to be discarded due to the builder's lack of experience.
-The inability to recognize what's done wrong due to lack of experience. The subtleties of "wrong" are many: lead dress, component placement, etc.
-Recognizing that amp building is not a paint by numbers type of undertaking. How often do we see filament lead dress done with a nice twist that is totally defeated because it's untwisted 1" or more from the tube socket (see, above, done wrong)?

Everyone's got to tackle all of these things at some point. So, I suppose, "why not now" is as good a strategy as any. Making an informed decision that will set expectations in context will go a long way to addressing the frustration factor. As they say, Rome wasn't built in a day. The same applies to your first amp. Patience will be beneficial.

I want to add one more thing. Any "big job" requires planning and I suggest the 80/20 rule applies. This means 80% of the time is spent planning and 20% spent doing. It may seem counter-intuitive, but I believe this is the fastest path to excellent results.

[angelodp]

In answer to your initial question….. here. Look here.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... =liverpool

Here is a build in progress with parts from rj, cannot go wrong with rj's stuff.

Its a gold mine here, so start mining. Almost every nuance of the build, Liverpool, has ben tackled here on TAG and documented. Phil's advice is spot on. Plan plan plan. I suggest creating your own layout against the know schematic. Not a new layout but the classic one, where you literally build the amp on paper. This will get you to tackle some of the intricacies of the build connections and lead dress. I'm not suggesting a paint by numbers approach, rather a way of acclimating yourself to the build cycle before committing to solder.

You will need the right tools to do the job. There are many posts on tooling up.

I suggest that you line up a half dozen existing builds, in post form, and study them meticulously. Take note of the build cycle, what went first, how they progressed. You will see differing approaches and components used.

Get your self a photo bucket account and a reasonably good quality camera and be ready to post as you proceed. You can circumvent some problems by showing the community how you are proceeding. Its tough to undo some lead dress issues if you show us the finished product.

I have no doubt that you will be taken under wing, as already evidenced, by many very experienced builders. Go for it, but take it real slow and in stages.

Looking forward to seeing your work.

[ampfab]

my opinion, you're the only one who knows what you're capable of.
i wouldn't want to spend my time and money building a champ, it would sit in the corner collecting dust.
With that in mind, i woud suggest you do a lot of reading, view videos on
you-tube about how tube amps work, building your own tube amp, and testing and repairing tube amps.
Spend time getting very familiar with the circuit you want to build; how it works, the different stages, the power supply.
then, build the amp you want, if you think you are capable.

[mirage_indigo]

One key thing to keep in mind.

You can build even a fairly complicated amp with enough planning. Your success will much more likely have to do with planning the build. The complexity of the build is a big factor, but really really doing your homework is (to me) a bigger factor.

My first build was a BF twin preamp into a plexi power amp, fixed bias with trem, so pretty complicated.

I've done two complete scratch builds and found that the real lifesaver was being able to do the entire build on paper first especially the mechanical layout.

By the time I actually get to soldering, I know where the board standoffs are, how much clearance there is on the pots, where the heater wires should route, etc.

Notably, this is the exact opposite of how I build pedals,which I just throw onto a breadboard and hope.

[cbass]

I'd suggest RJ and definitely not ctone.
Hell it ain't rocket surgery less thinkin more doin

[briane]

1 thing - while I would shoot for what your final goal is....

but...

all the t-wrecks are not just advanced builds, but 'extremely advanced builds' as at the end theres often a lot of subtle things that can mess these amps up.

lead dress - type of wire - layout's exact to within a mm foe example....

all require perfection in this amp or it will be noisy, or squeal. These are also 'high gain' amps, which further adds to heir subtle complexity.

And since you wont have that intuition built up yet (I hear x, clearly the problem is y) plan on spending a good bit (say 1-2 months) staring at it going gee, I dont know whats wrong, maybe its that.

and follow the layout EXACTLY.

Actually, given some carefulness and anal pre-emptiveness, I dont see why this isnt possible as a first build, but it will take some real time since you have not yet developed the build process.

[stretch2011]

In my opinion start off with a 5f6a Princeton or a 5e3 tweed deluxe. Simple stable amps that will get you started/used to how things work inside an amplifier. Not a lot to screw up either!

[Mat Cortex]

Hi
i'm currently building my first amp too. I had a lot of fun to choose component and anticipating the sound of it. As another member advise me: select high quality components.

The process to go "scratch build" instead of a kit will bring you a lot more tube related knowledge. By "scratch build" i doesn't mean designing your own amp but cloning one you love and make the board yourself, drilling the chassis... etc. and choosing the component YOU want.

have fun !
Mat

[Structo]

Even with a kit build, you still need component identification, basic electronic theory (Ohms' Law), soldering skills.

I probably did over six months of research before building my first tube amp.
And I have a background in electronics, just not much tube theory.

If you are able to absorb knowledge by reading books, that is great.

If not, search out videos that cover the basics.

You should be able to identify components visually.
Like:
Resistors- different compositions and behavior.

Capacitor-many different types.

Inductors- transformers (power and output), chokes, coils, etc.

Conductors- different types of wires and gauges, stranded, solid, shielded, coax, copper, silver etc.

Semi-conductors

Not to mention how to read a schematic and layout.

It can seem daunting at first but the knowledge you gain will pay off when you actually start building a amp.

Act polite here and you will reap the benefits.
Try to find answers yourself before asking the members will go a long way
to demonstrate your desire to learn.

Good luck!