Guitar pickup output

[Littlewyan]

I've always been under the impression that a pickup with lower output tends to have greater clarity than that of a high output pickup. I can think of two reasons why this would be true. 1. High output pickups with lots of winds can loose high end. 2. High output pickups push the front end of the amp more giving more pre amp distortion and thus less clarity.

What do you guys think?

[Stevem]

The more windings the more inductance, so even a massively wound single coil pick up done to get a lot of output will have reduced frequency response on the high end.

Also note that a humbucking pickup due to its phase canceling in and of itself is a form of distortion!

[Littlewyan]

Well reason I ask is I currently have Tonerider Rocksongs which are meant to be high out PAFs. The bridge is 11K with alnico 2 magnet and my issue is slight lack of clarity. So i'm looking at Tonerider AC2 pickups of which the bridge is just over 8K so should solve that issue, but I'm worried it'll have too much high end.

Emailed Andrew at Tonerider and he said the Rocksongs can be bright and the AC2s are mellower. But this goes against the rule of thumb I stated in my first post. I guess wire guage comes into play as well and whether the pickup is scatterwound or not.

[sunnydaze]

You might try lowering the pickups further from the strings. I prefer most of mine a little lower than "recommended" setting down.

Best regards
Mike

[matt h]

(deleted)

[Littlewyan]

I've watched videos on the website for the AC2 and AC4 and I reckon you're right Matt the AC4 is definitely for me. The question now, Zebras or Nickel Covers. I think I might go for the Zebras as the Nickel Covers can go bad over time.

Edit: Ordered the Zebra version. Can't wait to try them!

[angelodp]

Have you seen SRV's Strat with the Lipstick pickups - goin through an SSS amp, maybe 11 or 12 set on the guitar. This pickups are at 4k or less and wound around AL5 directly. Then theres's the hands and heart.

[Littlewyan]

No but I have now. Great sound!

Well I installed the Alnico 4 Pickups today and first impression was.........they sounded like a mess, if I'm honest! So I raised the bridge closer to the strings as it was a bit far away and it got a lot clearer but there was too much high end which I was worried about. So i started lowered the pole pieces and it sounds much better now but before I could mess around with them anymore my parents came home so I had to switch the amp off -_-.

I'm not giving up on them yet, I think they just need adjusting, but at the moment I will say that I prefer my old pickups. Tomorrow I have the house to myself so I'll be able to move my amp into the lounge which is a much bigger room and experiment. I think I'm definitely heading in the right direction as the old pickups had the right sort of tone but just needed extra clarity, these pickups have that clarity but sound like they're missing the upper mids atm. So I think if I lower the pole pieces to try and get rid of some high end I'll be there. Anyway will report back tomorrow.

[angelodp]

What pots do you have in the guitar? What tone cap?

[Zippy]

So i started lowered the pole pieces and it sounds much better now...

I think I'm definitely heading in the right direction as the old pickups had the right sort of tone but just needed extra clarity, these pickups have that clarity but sound like they're missing the upper mids atm. So I think if I lower the pole pieces to try and get rid of some high end I'll be there.

FWIW, I like to LOWER the pole pieces with the intent of balancing the output of the two coils. Think about it - where are the poles of the coil without the adjustable screws?

[angelodp]

True true Zippy. The overall pickup can then be raised or lowered to balance to the 2nd pickup. Don't want to get too close with those poles to the strings.

[Littlewyan]

Pots are all 500k and tone cap is the standard value (I cant remember what it is right now!). Starting to think I would have been better off with the Alnico 2s but we'll see how today goes. These pups will probably be ok once I've ensured each pole piece is balanced correctly and once I've fattened up the sound a bit.

[Littlewyan]

As much as I hate to say it, I had to take the Alnico 4 pups out. They were like glass in my guitar and were very mid scooped. I've put the Rocksongs back in (Alnico 2), adjusted the pole pieces for better string balance, lowered them a bit and now they kick ass. Wasn't a completely wasted exercise though, I now know I definitely prefer alnico2 magnets.

So I will be selling the Alnico4s if anyone is interested.

[Structo]

I have several guitars with Tonerider pickups.
Mostly single coil PU's.

A very good value for pickups.

Mostly lower wind ones that seem to sound clearer with most applications.

[Littlewyan]

I'm quite happy with the clarity of mine now, I've lowered the pole pieces by another half turn which has lowered the high end a bit more and made the mid range come out more. One big issue I had was the high E string pole piece was way too high and thus was dominating the mix when hitting chords.