Dumble - help needed urgently!

[xtian]

On your diagram, the standby switch has a legend, "Choke and OPT" (output transformer). The center tap of the OT primary is where you must connect B+. I'm just pointing out to you what I see on your layout diagram, but it makes sense. Not sure why Drew said, "no." Drew?

Question 6: that appears to be one of four wires that belong to the reverb transformer. They all come from that partially hidden grey circle on the layout diagram.

[drew]

OK, I still don't get it then. Xtian said to connect the OT red wire to the standby switch, the same place as where the choke goes. The choke at the standby switch goes to the middle-right pin of the DPDT switch... right? Sorry, please be patient. I'm doing my best here

You said "plus run another wire from there to the positive end of the large cap as shown in the picture." That wire is shown as connecting to the *bottom* terminal of the switch, not the middle terminal.

The amp you're building is more complicated than the original D'Lite, but the assembly sequence in Normster's guide is still what you should be trying to follow, to the extent possible.

[Mousey Dung]

OK, I still don't get it then. Xtian said to connect the OT red wire to the standby switch, the same place as where the choke goes. The choke at the standby switch goes to the middle-right pin of the DPDT switch... right? Sorry, please be patient. I'm doing my best here

You said "plus run another wire from there to the positive end of the large cap as shown in the picture." That wire is shown as connecting to the *bottom* terminal of the switch, not the middle terminal.

Okay, I see what you mean now.
So I'll do the following:
1) right-bottom terminal of standby switch connects to the positive end of large cap on the small board...
2) red wire from OT connects to right-middle terminal of the standby switch, which also connects to the choke.

[Mousey Dung]

QUESTION #7

Just double-checking: Is this red wire just a regular wire to connect the 1K/3W resistor and horizontal cap with the terminal lugs for the 6V6 tubes?

[xtian]

Yes, just regular wire. Its function is to provide screen voltage, thru 1k 5W resistors, to each of the #4 pins on your power tubes.

Goodnight and good luck! See you in the morning.

[drew]

Another thought: if you weren't given access to any kind of diagrams or photos showing just the under-board wiring that you can use to use to verify your boards against, it will have been very easy for you to have missed one or more of the jumpers, or connected the wrong points. You need to go over that layout diagram practically micron by micron looking for dotted lines, and double and triple check your work before you put those boards in and start connecting them.

[ToneMerc]

The amp you're building is more complicated than the original D'Lite, but the assembly sequence in Normster's guide is still what you should be trying to follow, to the extent possible.

I built one of these, the integral relay layout is the most complex of all the Brownnote builds and the last one I would suggest for a newbie, lot's of got ya places. You won't find any online info because this is the layout Moss did not want to share.

To the OP, if Moss took your money he should provide support all the way through.....good luck!

TM

[Mousey Dung]

Another thought: if you weren't given access to any kind of diagrams or photos showing just the under-board wiring that you can use to use to verify your boards against, it will have been very easy for you to have missed one or more of the jumpers, or connected the wrong points. You need to go over that layout diagram practically micron by micron looking for dotted lines, and double and triple check your work before you put those boards in and start connecting them.

You're right and I hope I'm going to be okay there! I've used a very systematic tactile approach to do point-by-point checks. Meaning, I first stuck all the components through the board eyelets without soldering or cutting the leg wires. Then I dealt with each eyelet one at a time: checking and triple-checking all the components connected to that particular eyelet and where the connecting wire(s) was/were supposed to go to. Then I prepared the specific connecting wire(s) and bent and shaped them to match the diagram, before soldering the eyelet together with all the component legs and shaped wire(s) that were connected to that particular eyelet. Finally, I would cut the component legs from that eyelet. So if an eyelet wasn't soldered and still had legs sticking out of it, it wasn't processed. And as I tidied up and processed each unfinished eyelet, I would triple-check all the connections coming and going from there.

Still, the weakness of not having pictures or diagrams of the board undersides is that I can misinterpret a cable coming from one of the transformers as being a jumper wire -- which is what I've done! I'm glad I came here for help!

[Mousey Dung]

I built one of these, the integral relay layout is the most complex of all the Brownnote builds and the last one I would suggest for a newbie, lot's of got ya places. You won't find any online info because this is the layout [ M. ] did not want to share.

To the OP, if [ M ] took your money he should provide support all the way through.....good luck!

TM

Do you have any docs for this BM44 then? I was very surprised not to get step-by-step instructions or even adequate information, or even information that was compiled 100% specific to this model. Initially, M. told me he would be preparing the docs specific to this build, but he never did. Then he told me I would do fine by just looking at the layout diagram.
Did M. provide you with any support? He was there for me initially, then gradually became scarce and finally disappeared totally, fully aware I'm under a lot of stress about completing this build in time.

[ToneMerc]

I built one of these, the integral relay layout is the most complex of all the Brownnote builds and the last one I would suggest for a newbie, lot's of got ya places. You won't find any online info because this is the layout Moss did not want to share.

To the OP, if Moss took your money he should provide support all the way through.....good luck!

TM

Do you have any docs for this BM44 then? I was very surprised not to get step-by-step instructions or even adequate information, or even information that was compiled 100% specific to this model. Initially, Moss told me he would be preparing the docs specific to this build, but he never did. Then he told me I would do fine by just looking at the layout diagram.
Did Moss provide you with any support? He was there for me initially, then gradually became scarce and finally disappeared totally, fully aware I'm under a lot of stress about completing this build in time.

No build or assembly docs; this was years back. He sold me the BM chassis but would not sell me the integral relays main BMR eyelet board without buying a completed amp, at the time there wasn't even a kit for this style of layout of a BMR yet.

Overall, for the beginner Moss's documentation for the more complex models never fully matured beyond Norm's D'Lite 22 assembly manual. Thus, the kit buyer receives only a diagram which in many cases can be inadequate.

Nevertheless, I was told all the functions though, so I starred at his amp and built my own board and added another relay board to control the verb. I did post the beginning of the build on his forum, but never posted any further pics because we were still cool at the time and I respected his wishes of not wanting his BMR layout to get out.

However sometime later another builder was kind enough to send me a basic 6L6 BM44R layout, so you have what I have.

I saw him logged onto TAG a few weeks ago, but after all his negative business history I doubt if he will post here. Myself and others were helping folks on his own forum when he obviously gave up providing any tech support or communications about orders there.

Drew gave you some good advice about verifying your work against the diagram, try and follow it the best as you can.

TM

[Bob Simpson]

You're lucky you received anything.

Search for Moss and or Brown Note to see how many folks got some parts or nothing for years.

And documentation was misleading and or incomplete.

Best wishes.

Have a pro check the amp before you rely on it.

Bob Simpson

[ToneMerc]

You're lucky you received anything.

Search for Moss and or Brown Note to see how many folks got some parts or nothing for years.


Bob Simpson

I paid Moss for some parts in Jan 2011, was told 5-6 excuses why or they are being shipping out....still waiting almost 4 years later.

TM

[martin manning]

MD,

How much calendar time do you have to get this thing running, and how much other stuff do you have to do in that same interval?

What kind of test equipment do you have? If you only have a multimeter, that's ok, but you need at least that, and the bulb limiter is a good idea.

Assuming the time available is reasonable, I'm going to recommend a modular assembly and test procedure rather than wiring everything up and crossing your fingers:

Install both power supply boards and connect all of the primary and secondary leads from the power transformer, AC inlet, fuse, pilot light, and also the choke and standby switch. I believe this is about where you are now.

After getting that far you can power it up with the limiter and check that all of the supply voltages are present and at reasonable levels. Check all of the high-voltage nodes (there are 7), the bias supply, and the relay supply. If that is successful, you can power it up without the limiter and check the voltages.

The power supply has balance resistors on the reservoir (the 220k's across the 100uF's), and also the 220k from the last filter to ground. This means there will be some current draw and the dangerous voltage will bleed down by itself within a minute or two after you switch the power off. No need to do anything special to drain the caps.

Next I would connect the OT and the complete bias circuit (including the test jacks and current sense resistors) to the power tube sockets, install all of the components that are mounted on the power tube sockets, and connect the reverb driver transformer to the power supply and driver tube socket.

Stop there and check voltages on the power tube and reverb driver tube sockets, and check the range of the bias voltage available on pins 5 of the power tube sockets.

At this point you can be sure that you have the entire power supply working correctly, and that it won't be a question as you move on.

If that is all good, then install the preamp board and wire it in.

[Mousey Dung]

MD,
How much calendar time do you have to get this thing running, and how much other stuff do you have to do in that same interval?

I had given myself a good month to do this, but there have been so many unexpected delays, including lack of access to M's tech support, that this project is now overdue. I do have a lot of other stuff to do. I am feeling stressed, but I know that that's dangerous and I should not cut corners or try to hasten a process that simply requires time... I was supposed to leave tomorrow and start rehearsing on location, etc, but I've made special arrangements to catch up with the band later. I will proceed carefully and give it the time it needs. Lucky to have understanding bandmates!

What kind of test equipment do you have? If you only have a multimeter, that's ok, but you need at least that, and the bulb limiter is a good idea.

I have both.

Assuming the time available is reasonable, I'm going to recommend a modular assembly and test procedure rather than wiring everything up and crossing your fingers:

Install both power supply boards and connect all of the primary and secondary leads from the power transformer, AC inlet, fuse, pilot light, and also the choke and standby switch. I believe this is about where you are now.

After getting that far you can power it up with the limiter and check that all of the supply voltages are present and at reasonable levels. Check all of the high-voltage nodes (there are 6), the bias supply, and the relay supply. If that is successful, you can power it up without the limiter and check the voltages.

The power supply has balance resistors on the reservoir (the 220k's across the 100uF's), and also the 220k from the last filter to ground. This means there will be some current draw and the dangerous voltage will bleed down by itself within a minute or two after you switch the power off. No need to do anything special to drain the caps.

Next I would connect the OT and the complete bias circuit (including the test jacks and current sense resistors) to the power tube sockets, install all of the components that are mounted on the power tube sockets, and connect the reverb driver transformer to the power supply and driver tube socket.

Stop there and check voltages on the power tube and reverb driver tube sockets, and check the range of the bias voltage available on pins 5 of the power tube sockets.

At this point you can be sure that you have the entire power supply working correctly, and that it won't be a question as you move on.

If that is all good, then install the preamp board and wire it in.

This was what I originally thought I was supposed to do, which is why I was asking yesterday about commencing with the bulb-limiter tests. However, on being advised differently, I started wiring up the preamp board to the rest of the system. I'm now mostly done with that, but the square main power-supply board is not connected yet.

[martin manning]

Ok, I would leave all of the supply nodes on the main PS board unconnected and test the power supplies. If you have already connected some of the OT leads, and or the reverb driver transformer, that won't matter. As long as no tubes are installed, there isn't anywhere for the current to go. Start with a low-wattage bulb in your limiter, 60W or less.

This is still risky business, and you are taking a chance counting on this amp for your shows.