Silvertone 1472 Had Issues - Better Now

[Cliff Schecht]

Yeah if that's the case then go through the eBay return process and insist that the seller pay return shipping. It's his responsibility to make sure it's arrives at your place in the condition it's described in. If it isn't, eBay buyer protection does a fantastic job of covering your expenses as long as you play 100% by the rules (easy to do as a buyer unless you don't use Paypal).

[Cameron]

Also ..check the 68ohm resistors on the indicator light ....that balance the filament supply.... Allot of current and/or a tube going bad ...puts allot of stress on these two resistors. When they go out of balance ..the amp will pick up more hum and noise. After you get it running.
If you need a little more gain ...put a 470pf over the 330k mixer resistor... and a .68 over the first stage 2.2k cathode and if you like a bright cap ... a 250pf -.002 on the volume.... It will work on whatever channel you chose. You could add a PPMV ...but these amps don't have much headroom anyway so .. through a Marshall style 4x12 at 4ohms ..I kind of run it like you would a Trainwreck amp.
I used to work at a store that sold this kind of wacky 50s - 70s stuff and goofy oddball guitars....but also sold ESP and other cool stuff like that too.. when I first started fixing amps... repairing this stuff was my first 2 years ..its where I started and I will always love cheap funky amps.

[Cameron]

I don't believe the problem to be a simple one. I don't even care about testing the tubes at this point. I just contacted the seller and am going to see if they'll cover the shipping back their way. I feel that this is a very misrepresented amp and I doubt shipping was the cause.

Thats not cool.... I hope he'll be cool and just take it back.. Good luck.

[Stevem]

Note that on these amps a the 1482 model that most of the output transformers have a unused 8 ohm tap that makes it a sinch to change out the speakers to a better one with the one concideration being the new speakers depth!
also note that the speaker baffle in these amps are just 1/4 inch Masonite and can add a lot of unwanted low vibrations when the amp is played cranked on a guitars neck pickup.
if you cut inch and a half long plywood triangles made from 1/2" or better ply you can glue them fanned out around the speaker and greatly stiffen the baffle and not have to replace it and loose some of the depth you need for a bigger magnet new driver!

[Blackburn]

Thanks again for all the responses, guys. I'm in the process of talking to the seller (Who's offered a refund), but I'm attempting to have the return shipping refunded as well. I think that's only fair. I gave this thing more than enough chances, but the facts are overwhelming, and I've had a good amount of time with it on the bench. I've been extremely compliant with PP and Ebay and I'm sure if this case escalates, they'll surely decide in my favor.

Edit: Here's a response I got after a refund was agreed to...

"just some notes this amp has just had new filter caps and bypass caps. it was in top working condition when shipped. these silvertones dont have as much voltage in the circuit so it may not be as loud as other amps with the same tubes. also tremolo is channel two only i think. "

I can't imagine them hearing this thing and thinking it was in top working condition. They know it's a pretty low voltage circuit, but the trem only works on channel two??? Things like this confound me.

[Blackburn]

No one is going to believe this, but I'm keeping the amp and I got my money refunded entirely...

Here's the story:

I opened the case yesterday and was told by Ebay that the seller agreed to a refund and I should just ship the amp back. Before I responded, I was sent the message I posted last, about the amp being serviced and all that other bullshit. When I responded today, I simply said that the amp was not as described and that my testing shows the amp is quite flawed. I also corrected them about the amplifier. I followed all that by saying that they'd receive positive feedback by taking good care of a customer and cover the shipping back their way. I feel it's only right and I won't pay it out of principle. I've had dealings in the past and have always been taken care of regarding shipping back defective items. Well, after that message, they escalated the case themselves and within minutes, it was decided in their favor! I was actually on the phone with Ebay at the time I read that and was absolutely livid. I told the guy and he couldn't believe it either, that a decision was made in minutes, and transferred me to the resolution center to appeal the case. It turns out that the claim they made was that I tampered with the amp and it was no longer in the condition that I received it in. I was enraged and was telling the woman from the RC all this and she reviewed the case over a few minutes. When she came back, she told me I'd get my refund and not to worry about the case any more. I asked her about the item, assuming I'd need to send it back, and she said I could do what I want with it. I was speechless and asked her to please repeat herself. I did indeed hear her just fine. Ebay resolved it and gave me a winning lottery ticket. I was still a little dubious until I checked my PP account minutes later and there was my money. Pretty amazing. Hope this story wasn't too long winded, but I'm still on cloud 9 and actually looking forward to repairing the amp now. Thank you Ebay!

[Stevem]

Nice resolve to what could have been a full on mess!
With these amps with the two channels being in phase you can make one channel a brite voiced one and put a short jumper cable from the two input channel to the other, a nice mod and so easy!

[Phil_S]

Wowweee! I think you were certainly within your rights to open the amp to inspect it. Did they sticker it, no user serviceable parts inside?

[Cliff Schecht]

This is my experience with eBay, they go the extra mile to take care of the customer if you follow the rules (buying and selling, knowing the system well will save you the most headache and money). I've rarely been on the bad end of a purchasing deal, but I've had plenty of sales that didn't go well so well for whatever reason. When the issue was my fault (wrong listing info, item didn't work, etc..), I paid the price either in a partial/full refund or paying return shipping. When the issue was because of a customer misunderstanding or not an error on my end, I offered a full refund after receiving the item from the customer. If shipping was ridiculous, occasionally, I would split the cost but otherwise it was the customers responsibility.

I'm sure the seller did not lose any money over this deal either, you'd not be keeping the amp if that weren't the case. With everything you've described I think the best course of action would have been a partial refund that both parties agree on, but you ended up in that lucky rare occasion that a sell went so wrong that eBay paid the price. Sounds like the error was on eBay's end anyways so that's probably why they went the extra mile to make things right.

Glad it worked out in the end!!

[Blackburn]

I'm very happy it turned out this way and I think you're right about this being a rare occasion, Cliff. It never crossed my mind that this kind of thing could happen. I like Phil's comment about stickering it "No user serviceable parts inside".

I'll fix her up soon and we'll be rockin'. I'm just going to look for the right caps to install. I'm not planning any mods either. I want to hear this thing stock, nice and healthy. The particular speaker that came in this thing is great. Same as my 1482 and much better than the Jensen. I'll post my progress as it happens.

[Phil_S]

As you probably know, I'm an amateur and there is lots I don't know. I listened to your sound clip. I'm not quite sure what causes that, but I'm thinking it is a relatively easy fix. The first thing I'd look for is filter caps that wiggle and then I'd figure how to stabilize them. I'd also swap tubes for known good ones. Try all the easy stuff first, cold solder, etc. After that, what little gut feeling I've got tells me I'd have a real close look at the PI, and I can't tell you why. You'll have it running right in no time.

[Blackburn]

The things I know need replacing in the amp are the signal caps and the Sangamo .1uf filter on V1. All Sangamos must go. I pulled the tubes and measured hundreds of mVs after V1's caps. I also read 9vdc and 13vdc on the pair of 6V6 grids. There's a connection from the bias return to the trem circuit and the only way for voltage to be there is either leakage of one cap in the trem, the PI caps before the PS grids or both. Either way, them caps gotta go. After that, I'll see how she sounds.

[Phil_S]

So much for my gut feeling...

[Blackburn]

Your gut feeling may be right. I haven't checked the tubes yet, but I may just pop them into another amp for testing by ear. I'm going to leave the trem problem(s) to fix last. Leaving the intensity pot all the way down will ground the resistors from the grids and there won't be any issue with voltage coming from there.

Damn these Sangamos!

[Blackburn]

After that, what little gut feeling I've got tells me I'd have a real close look at the PI, and I can't tell you why.

I don't know how you did it... but you have some sort of gift. I got to doing some more tinkering last night and in my testing, came across an open plate resistor... Guess where, Phil. I think Cameron also mentioned this so my hat's off to both you guys.

I'm happy to find that although the caps are leaking, most of the problem was a little tootsie roll and after sorting through my bag of old CCs, I found a good 220k and we were actually rocking. I did a clip late last night off the cuff, just to show the improvement for you guys from before. It was a quick take, so please pardon my playing.

https://soundcloud.com/snapdragon58/1472healthier-1

As it happened, just after I soldered in a new 220k, I fired her up and got nothing. Went back to the bench and found the 6X4 went out. The amp included a SS drop in and a Tung Sol 6X4WA. I haven't fired the amp up many times at all and this NOS looking rectifier goes out. I was thinking the can cap they used as a replacement might be to blame. The reservoir filtering is 50uf. I know that's above what a 6X4 is spec'd for, but being indirectly heated, I assumed that, as long as there's no 'hot switching', it wouldn't be a problem. It makes me wonder just why they included a SS drop in. Maybe they were going through 6X4s like water? Either way, I'm glad it's mostly sounding healthy again, but I'm dubious about putting in another 6X4.

Here's a pic of the SS rect, the dead 6X4 and the culprit...