Dumble volumes and hearing

[10thTx]

DaGeezer,

THANKS for sharing the video! To my ears, the tone stays the same (despite the volume) much as if I were listening to a "cranked ZZ Top" tune on a stereo and simply turned the stereo down.

Same tone, just at a different volume. Obviously for most (if not all of us), we have a preferred volume range that we enjoy more than other volume ranges. So that plays a factor in preference.

Having said that, I think your setup sound excellent & I would be very happy being able to achieve those tones at those volume ranges.

I've not heard other options that I thought sounded better at preserving tone at any a wide volume range.

As a side note, it seems like most of the Dumble and clone videos I've seen have been pretty cranked/loud. Not all but the majority have been.

I personally have tried PPIMV , typical master volume, other post PI master volumes, VVR's, half power switches and that cathode biased attenuation method. An active FX loop has been the best solution for me so far.

THANKS for sharing it! Very useful demo, IMO.

With respect, 10thtx

[vibratoking]

That's a nice sounding demo! I am impressed with your amp. I like secret sauce.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

I like secret sauce.

I'm hoping it won't be secret too much longer.

[da Geezer]

I like secret sauce.

I'm hoping it won't be secret too much longer.

Alright, here it is....in the loop of the D-lator is ....an old Digitech RP7

I stumbled onto it by accident, but it just "being there" makes a real difference in maintaining a consistent tone.
The RP7 preamp is off (it's horrible), there is a very little verb and delay (add to taste, or none at all if you don't want it, everything else is off), but the real magic seems to be in the compressor.
It doesn't work like any other comp I've ever used...It doesn't squish or squash the signal, but actually maintains and even enhances dynamics.

There is the added benefit/convenience of the presence control, which allows for a quick tweak of the high end for brighter or darker guitars, a decent optical volume pedal, and a built in tuner.

You have to keep the effects send down low so as not to clip the RP7 (you'll see the first pot on the dlator is around "1") but once you get the controls set to what works for your rig, you're good to go.

The RP's are still available on eBay for usually $50 to $75....I've got a few of them, and have gotten pretty good at repairing them, but they aren't made anymore, and so try pick up cheap ones whenever I see them.

Anyway, that's what works for me....not the standard Dumble fare, but I've never got as good of tone and feel from any rig before, and at ANY volume I want or need.

G

[10thTx]

I am wondering IF it would be possible to take the positive aspects of the RP7 and keep those and delete the tube preamp that sounds "horrible" to make one's own pedal?

NEVERMIND ............. after looking at the unit manual, I am seeing it is sort of a computer modeling type thing (I think?).


With respect, 10thtx

[da Geezer]

I am wondering IF it would be possible to take the positive aspects of the RP7 and keep those and delete the tube preamp that sounds "horrible" to make one's own pedal?

NEVERMIND ............. after looking at the unit manual, I am seeing it is sort of a computer modeling type thing (I think?).


With respect, 10thtx

Well, not exactly modeling, but still complex enough to not be easily cloned.
While I do use it as a floor unit, it could just as easily set on top of an amp or the d-lator if you weren't going to make any changes on the fly.

G

[212Mavguy]

my .02 from my experiences...

Contextually speaking, I'm more of a lazy hobbyist than a consummate virtuoso as a player, definitely a 2 on a scale of 10 as an amp tech/builder, I don't have experience or knowledge for recording clips other than a cheap video camera with a built in condenser mic, and my playing when recorded sounds self-conscous in not a good way, so please forgive my words if they seem strange, they just might be...

Have three commercially built low cost D-clones, all three pimped out to the max in the old stock tube department, that all get mostly played at home in a carpeted living room or gigged through mainly two semi open back cheapass chinese Seismic Audio "Luker" cabs that are very roomy as well as being light and transportable, and sound amazngly good at small house or outside volumes. One has a pair of original 75w Altec 417c's, the other has custom recone 30 watt 50's vintage JBL D216's, both cabs are wired in series for the 16 ohms thang. The 216's have a mesh dust cap and doping on the surround.

I have a fourth D-clone on the way from feebay, a head touted as a 50w 102 type from a small production boutique amp builder. I'll be it's third owner. Hopefully, the price was right.

My ears like the idea of speakers that have softer suspensions like these old Altecs and JBl's, the cleans carry noticeably more of the subtle harmonic detail and dynamics at lower wattage/volume settings, and as long as I have two of them going at once, they hold up very well at loud gig volumes. The big 3 inch vc's express the thick stuff without causing the amp to have to overwork.

I think it helps for softer volume venues to have cabs with speakers to play through that are compliant enough in the suspension to express the tone chain at living room volumes... that still have enough fortitude to withstand big house volumes. YMMV

The amps are:

Ceriatone HRM 50w, v1 LNFB switch mod

Ceriatone SSS 100w,

Marsh FS-X Overlord 50w, LNFB and half power options Sorta 124-ish using Ceriatone board(s).

What I have very consistenly found across the board with these amps is that for a small room, to increase the tonal warmth and paricularly the sustain/bloom/feedback thang of the higher volume settings it helps to tweak the bias a bit hotter, like 10% or so idle current more compared to the trend of slightly cold values commonly used. That will make the amp slightly louder for a given channel master/level/ratio setting, though, so a bit of adjustment helps.

I have put a lot of hours on a Weber MASS. It's an attenuator/line out box with a full VTMB tone stack on its TRS output jack's balanced line out, a headphone out for silent practice, employs a speaker motor in it's volume reducing guts along with the other stuff, some switches to engage some treble boost if desired and a footswitch to turn the attenuation on or off. I have consistenly found that if properly used, most of the slight changes in tone that might be deemed undesirable to a player or instrument can be compensted for in the main amp's tone stack. I like it, but it is spendy.

I'm going to experiment with using it as a dummy load/line out for a silent stage (at a low master volume) I have played on in the past utilizing in ear monitors and floor shakers with one of the D-clones, probably the Overlord sometime this summer pushing a low output volume into it, since there is no joy in overworking the power section with heavily or completely attenuated excessive volume settings, which can kill cheaply made amps quite quickly as has already been posted.

Finally, I have a C-lator running a strong late 50's Siemens longplate 12ax7 inside. This proved to really work well to the point of being a necessity with the SSS, which is a big, heavy, lovely sounding tone diva, although very, very loud. Use fo the C-lator made the amp usable for playing out, it has the capability of being painfully loud and a bit tough to play through softly at the full power settting without the c-lator. The HRM benefited in the tone particularly in the lead channel with the c-lator, most noticeable with the bridge pickup and higher notes. I also use the drive control on the c-lator to get more sustain/bloom at smaller house volumes. I don't use the long send/return cables for the "capacitance thang."

For some reason the master volume/ratio controls on the Marsh Overlord work well across a huge spectrum of volumes. When I hooked up the c-lator, I felt like the lead channel tones, already thick, became a bit too bloated for my ears. Of the three D-clones I have purchased, it is the most versatile in it's tone palette. It also is the quickest to get out of control at loud volumes doing guitar/amp feedback city if the player is not attentive.

My experience is that I found no magic bullet, but to have tools and toys like speaker choices, a decent attenuator sensibly used, and a decent loop buffer that can be sensibly employed singly or in combination sure helps.

Peace.

[tag101]

For the tones I like and use, the MV on the Dumble works like magic. I can get "my" tone from ear bleed levels, all the way down to whisper quiet. The cleans do open up more when you get them pretty loud, but I much prefer fender cleans, and use a SR for my cleans 99% of the time anyway. Great cleans all the way down to a whisper as ell.

[tag101]

What?

LOL! Well.... That USE to be funny. Now that I am 55 and saying it more than ever, its not so funny any more.