Any interest in seeing some Dumble Tweed Deluxe photos?

[Charlie Wilson]

Bob, no worries. I figured that is what you meant by the comment. I just used it as an chance to send the evil eye out to the profiteers who want to take but not give anything back.

[vibratoking]

Charlie, A big thank you. I appreciate what you have given to this forum and it's members. A very interesting and very accessible blueprint of what HAD does to an already great amp.

Unfortunately, I think we all know what Nik's next offering will be. He's a scumbag and I see nothing to indicate that he will change his methods. You mentioned the best solution to the problem...a good old fashioned ass kicking. Count me in.

[PaisleyTube]

Regarding tweed 5F1 Champs:

altough the schematic doesn't show a 25u cb cap most 5F1 Champs did have one........

[Mark]

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then play with the dropping string to get the clarity back the phase invertor and preamp

I would have thought the extra rail voltage would have given the Deluxe more headroom to a point.

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As far as the tweed champ goes, all Dumble does is remove all the components off the board and replace with the same stuff he uses for the tweed deluxe(stock values). The only changes are increased filtering(22uf each cap) and increase the value of the NFB resistor(I think 270k instead of 22k). He keeps the original board, wire, and speaker.

So HAD uses Xiron resistors and Orange Drop caps with carbon comp resistors on the inputs, but all stock Champ values. The filter caps are all 22uF, and the feedback resistor is so big there is almost no feedback at all.

Thanks for your reply Charlie, that is interesting as if I had to mod a Champ the first thing I'd do is put in an output transformer with a larger core to increase the bass response. In my Champ I'm using a Mercury FTW-CHMP-OS output transformer (from memory).

I would certainly do this before going to a larger speaker size. Someone tell HAD we are giving something back to him that he can use.

All tongue in cheek of course.

[Charlie Wilson]

Hello Mark, my statement about the dropping string in the Tweed Deluxe was related to the fact that in the one I built I dropped the overall voltages by using zener diodes on the PT center tap and using a 5Y3 rectifier. This put the plates on the power tubes at about 350v. The front end of the amp gets soft pretty quick as you drop the voltages. Yeah I know I deviated away from Dumbles design and probably the whole point of why he did what he did but there were concerns(not by me) of how hot it ran and that was my solution. While I am at it, I promised Tony I would check my notes for power tube bias voltages. I have 22.79 volts on the power tubes cathode and that the tubes were at 16.60W. What I don't remember is if that was measured from the real Dumble or the one I made. I do know that the voltages I had in the one I made were surprisingly close to Dumbles. So if that is not from the original amp it still should be very close.

[talbany]

While I am at it, I promised Tony I would check my notes for power tube bias voltages

Thanks Charlie..

T

[67plexi]

Back in 1978 I was given a 1958 Fender Tweed Deluxe in mint condition
It was from a famous recording artist all the tubes were Amperex made in Holland
GZ34 and 12AX7 & 6V6 it ran hot the bias was 29.8. It was one of the best sounding Tweeds I have
ever played. 100% stock as far as I could tell at that time. Charlie what zener did you use to drop
the B+1 to 350 volts. Tony I don't know if that helps. I would like to get close to that amp tone wise
I recorded 27 songs in the studio in Los Angeles with that Deluxe amp 1978-80.

Thanks' again Charlie for this information.

Steve.

[talbany]

Steve
I believe it!!
We worked on Bill Kirtchen's 5E3 (don't remember the date code early 50's) It's the one he used on Hot Rod Lincoln, It too was biased hot (22w) my notes say..We loaded JJ's in that amp and put it back to stock and did some servicing..That amp KILLED..One of the best sounding Deluxe's!!..He went on to record some tracks with Elvis Costello with the amp and his 53 Tele..I agree those Deluxe's sound wonderful with 1 foot off the cliff and arms swinging!!..
All The Best!

Tony

[Teleguy61]

Charlie, Tony, Steve, Bob, and all.
Great thread, great info!
Thank you for sharing, I am hanging on every response.

George

[Charlie Wilson]

Hello guys, Steve this was about two years ago and I don't remember the specific zener I used but I do remember stringing a couple together until I got the 350V I wanted. However, I would suggest everybody build it as Dumble did it. After hearing about the amps Tony and Steve encountered, I guess 17 or so watts isn't to bad. The only reason I did what I did was because of thermal paranoia. Also, that fairly inexpensive Celestion 50 sounds good in this amp. Greenbacks do also. I did not love the sound of an alnico in this circuit. Lastly, use a good quality, clear sounding output transformer. I preferred the sound of the Mercury Magnetics over Magnetic Components. The Magnetic components was a little soft sounding to my ears. That is a taste thing on my part. Notice also that Dumble lifted the self lead off of the output transformer frame and ran it to the speaker jack ground. That makes sense but they break pretty easily, so be careful if you do that.

[talbany]

The only reason I did what I did was because of thermal paranoia.

Charlie
I have an original (accept for tolex and speaker) 1949 TV front 5C5 Pro cathode biased 6L6 amp..If you think the 5E runs hot!!..After being on for an hour the chassis will burn you ..I still use the amp regularly for rehearsals and after 65 years still has the original Xformers and sounds KILLER!!.. I really wouldn't worry about the Deluxe's
Let em EAT!!

Tony

[cbass]

Thanks for posting Charlie .Imam just learning about dumbles so really dont know all the topology and names for circuits.
So let me see if I understand for 7 gran HAD will gut your rare and valuable amp replace it with the same circuit and keep all the original parts and speaker. if he is getting people to do this then he really is a genius not just as an amp builder but as a business person.

[Charlie Wilson]

Since the whole world can read this (including Dumble) I better be more specific about the 7K number I threw out. I never saw a receipt from Dumble for the amp so that amount might have included the cost of having to buy the vintage Tweed amp also. So let me say between 5 and 7K to Dumble (and a vintage speaker and components). I probably should not have mentioned any price without knowing 100% for sure, so let me adjust my statement a little.

[Charlie Wilson]

OK, had a sandwich and I am better now. Layouts back up.
CW

[ToneMerc]

Well since you guys are like Dumble Cyborgs and figured all of this out already, I will show you my hand drawn layout. Actually I was little embarrassed at showing my chicken scratch when you guys are doing these great looking layouts.

Again, thank you Charlie.

TM