Master Volume in an Express

[Trainlover]

Hi guys.
I'm modestly starting a thread where I'd like to gather as much info possible about installing a PPIMV in an Express, be it the Lar/Mar version or any other. I have very successfully installed PPIMVs in Marshall builds I've done but I'd like to know if any of you has ever gone down that track with an Express?

As an example, here is a picture of a Lar/Mar installed in a 100w 1959 I did a while ago, located in lieu of the second speaker outpuck jack:

[img:800:533]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/774595MG2568.jpg[/img]

[martin manning]

I have a K Fischer type-2 (aka Lar-Mar) PPI MV installed in my Express along with a cut control. If you do the MV, I recommend adding the cut control.

[Trainlover]

I have a K Fischer type-2 (aka Lar-Mar) PPI MV installed in my Express along with a cut control. If you do the MV, I recommend adding the cut control.

Thanks for your reply! I'd gladly take more info if you can provide them. What is that "cut control"? Any pictures of that mod inside your Express? Thanks!

[vibratoking]

This has been discussed to the nth degree in many different threads over the years. Martin's reply is on the money for him. OTOH, you will get any answer that you wish or don't wish to hear. I prefer VVR on the whole amp to reduce volume, FWIW. I respectfully suggest that you use the search function and read all the posts regarding this much discussed topic. You owe it to yourself to do the research. Besides you will learn a lot more by reading many threads vs the limited answers you will get in this thread.

[M Fowler]

I haven't done the VVR yet but have done PPIMV and treble cut on the Express and it is the only way I really can enjoy an Express.

[redshark]

I read comments like that Mark and I always wonder why? the express stock is perfect for me. I wouldn't do any mod to it!

[M Fowler]

It's me or my playing style I think, I've heard other guys through my Express that sounded great, but me I need a different amp like a Marshall.

[redshark]

Yes, it may be a tactile thing I guess....you still like stock rockets, correct?

[geetarpicker]

A master in wreck will work, but IMHO it will sacrifice quite a bit of the useful clean to mean range. Without the output stage being pushed having a master will mean quite a bit less output stage compression, ala less power supply sag. This will make your dirty tones louder vs your clean tones being quite a bit less loud. In other words when you turn your guitar down you will loose more volume (vs the dirty tones which will be more dynamic and louder) and your cleans may not be as usable in a band situation. In a non-master Express the power supply sag puts more of a limiter on the fully distorted volume bringing that down more in relation to the cleans making the net volume more consistent and usable. To me a master is a big deal breaker in a wreck because you loose this effect quite a bit. I guess if you really only want a distorted tone (or if your wreck doesn't do clean well anyway) I guess it wouldn't seem like much of a compromise to go with a master.

Another effect of the compression (and perhaps OT and EL34 saturation) of a cranked non-master wreck is a bit of extra high end roll off just when pushed. Typically though with a master you will loose some of this and your dirty tones will be more fizzy. If you compensate by taming the highs, and/or using a cut control you then will sacrifice some clarity when you back down for cleans.

A nice attenuator will typically work better than a master, and I hear VVR circuits do better as well though I don't have first hand experience with them.

GK

[pleasantbullet]

May i ask what the red stuff is on all your solder joints?

Also, is it recommended to clean solder joints and what do you use?

[Paultergeist]

I have a K Fischer type-2 (aka Lar-Mar) PPI MV installed in my Express along with a cut control. If you do the MV, I recommend adding the cut control.

Martin, I somehow had it in my mind that Mr. Fischer was generally not-too-keen on MV controls in his designs. Your post seems to point towards things being otherwise......but maybe I'm off-track here.

Can you elaborate a little on this point?

[martin manning]

In "The Trainwreck Pages" KF described several types of MV. I can't recall if he offered any opinions on the tonal characteristics of each or in general. I believe that document is posted here on TAG.

[Paultergeist]

Thank you!

[rooster]

Well, wait a minute, Martin. Ken never suggested a MV on his amps. All those drawings were for Marshalls., Fenders, etc.

If Ken found out you had installed a MV in one of his amps he would probably disown the amp...and you.

That said, I have the LarMar in one of my clone Express amps. Since it is actually bypassed when the MV volume is on 10, I don't see the harm. I typically don't use it all that much, but I have on occasion and it's been a help.

(Listen to my sound clip on the top of page 3.)

[martin manning]

Well, wait a minute, Martin. Ken never suggested a MV on his amps. All those drawings were for Marshalls., Fenders, etc.

If Ken found out you had installed a MV in one of his amps he would probably disown the amp...and you.

That said, I have the LarMar in one of my clone Express amps. Since it is actually bypassed when the MV volume is on 10, I don't see the harm. I typically don't use it all that much, but I have on occasion and it's been a help.

He didn't say not to, either, did he?