Cranked Power section and Reverb

[badoumba]

Hi!

For a high dynamic bluesy sound, a design that saturates output tubes easier than preamp is often advised. How can it be so as the reverb stands before the power section?

Thx

[Stevem]

I am not sure what you are asking, but to me,and in general for a amp that I play,I must have low levels of internal feedback, or no feedback circuit.
Too much feedback in a amp makes the change over from clean to dirty take place faster and faster as you add in feedback, and in doing so limits the dynamic range you speak of and cuts down on stage gain,which may or may not add to the issue!
Having reverb or delay/ time based effects before a stage that will be adding in more clipping can get to sound messy dependent on the level of distortion that is added in.

[Phil_S]

I'm not sure what you are saying. I'd look at the Fender Deluxe Reverb circuit. It should give you the sound I imagine you are describing.

Why reverb? Forget that. Look at the 5E3 Deluxe. We don't need reverb ;-}

[JoeCon]

I think what he's getting at is NOT the sound of the preamp overdriven into a clean power section but a clean preamp into an overdriven power section.

And while the reverb is before the power section your overdrive, as it were, is gonna be from the swing of the PI to drive the output tubes hard and to full power. So sure the tone stack and reverb are all before that but the PI is where you're looking for your sound to come from, yes??

HTH....

[badoumba]

@joeCon

Yep, this is what I meant! The (clean) reverb sound will probably be awful and for sure iregularely overdriven by the power tubes.

[talbany]

Unfortunately this is inherent in amps that have buit in reverb,and the main reason why they have an external amp to run the effects (or have the reverb blended in the mix)..It also depends on how much reverb you use..Some players that use lower power amps use just a touch of reverb to give the tone some girth and widen the sound so it's not as bad...Some amps like an Overdrive special 100w that have a powerful output section and generates most of the higher gain tone from the preamp are not as bad at distorting the reverb (if your heavy on the reverb mix control)..Sometimes using more than 1 amp helps since you don't normally have to run both into output tube distortion to get a full sound (and use pedals)and or have the 2nd amp just do the wet effects keep it clean and run the main amp into distortion..

Tony

[badoumba]

I see. But for sound consistency, wet part should also be the overdriven one, not a mix with the clean. It could be interesting to design such an amp, by capturing a part of the output, apply the reverb, new push pull and final mix with the dry before the output transformer. Heavy design but probably worth trying!

[talbany]

I see. But for sound consistency, wet part should also be the overdriven one

I am confused?..I thought this is what you were trying to avoid

Never Mind..

Tony

[badoumba]

I know my english is not perfect, but it seems rather simple to catch.

With a reverb stage before an overdriven power section, dry part will be overdriven, wet part not entirely depending on the decreasing swing level, thus providing a mismatch between dry and wet sound. It is like putting a delay before a distorsion pedal, not the best choice.

With a reverb stage (potentially) after an overdriven power section, wet part would be the based on the dry one. This is what I refered as consistency.

My post was only to have any feedback about this fact and know if something has already been tried regarding this particular issue.

[roberto]

Something like that, I guess:

[img:566:440]http://www.thebarnpresents.com/wp-conte ... iagram.jpg[/img]

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Help me out guys; what's the name of that BadCat reamping device? It has a 100W reactive dummy load you plug the output of your amp into, then it has an effects loop, then a 100W clean power amp built-in. I think this will do exactly what the OP is asking for.

[Colossal]

Help me out guys; what's the name of that BadCat reamping device? It has a 100W reactive dummy load you plug the output of your amp into, then it has an effects loop, then a 100W clean power amp built-in. I think this will do exactly what the OP is asking for.

I believe that is the BadCat Unleash.

Yes, a wet/dry or wet/dry/wet rig is killer. Load down the amp, take a line level signal, add time based effects, reamp and enjoy the very best of lush, fat, output tube distortion with pristine delay...and at any volume. Stand in the 3D stereo field for bonus points

[badoumba]

Interesting! Thanks I'll try to know more about this one.
But a 100W first stage is probably not necessary, unless a 4 valves pushpull provides more overdrive than a 2 valves one, which I suspect being the case.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

Interesting! Thanks I'll try to know more about this one.
But a 100W first stage is probably not necessary, unless a 4 valves pushpull provides more overdrive than a 2 valves one, which I suspect being the case.

With the Unleash, the first stage is whatever guitar amp you wish to use - in other words, you provide the first stage. The Unleash has a dummy load inside that your amp drives. I believe it is rated for amps up to 100W. After the Unleash takes your guitar amp's output and turns it in to a line level signal, there is an effects loop where you can connect whatever effects you want (this loop is after your amplifier's speaker output). After the effects loop, the Unleash has a volume control, followed by a 100W Class D power amplifier. So you can use a 5W amp as your first stage, and wind up with the Unleash's internal 100W amp pushing your speaker. Likewise, you can start with a 100W amp as your first stage, and use the volume control on the front of the Unleash to bring your cranked 100W amp down to a whisper level. I think there are a few guys here who have one, and there is a discussion thread about this product here somewhere...

Check here for a demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ihJuBhWQYM