Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Overdrive Special, Steel String Singer, Dumbleland, Odyssey, Winterland, etc. -
Members Only

Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal

User avatar
rogb
Posts: 1094
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:56 am
Location: London, England

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by rogb »

OK so from the PT you have bias voltage( around 50VAC going into the board)
you have heater VAC ( around 3.2VAC on each leg).
Are you getting the HV in at the bias/rectifier board - around 345VAC on each wire? Measure this with your DMM AC setting.After the rectifier, change back to DC.
Have you trace measured from the PT outputs along the path to the rectifier and switches, remembering to keep one hand in the pants back pocket while doing this (hope I'm not teaching Egg Sucking 101 here, but TAG plays safe :) )
User avatar
67plexi
Posts: 788
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:34 pm
Location: Juneau Alaska

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by 67plexi »

1- What is your primary voltages to the power transformer AC in.
2- What is you secondary voltage HV out of the power transformer in AC ( 345-0-345 ) 690vac no load.
3- What is your B+1 DC voltage ??? to the standby switch. Then B+2, B+3, B+4, B+5.
mwdavis14
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:46 pm
Location: United states

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by mwdavis14 »

Martin,
Thank you. I do indeed have a blown fuse - certainly at least part of the problem. Step #1 - replace - underway. Hopefully that will resolve the problem
Mark
User avatar
Structo
Posts: 15446
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:01 am
Location: Oregon

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by Structo »

mwdavis14 wrote:I am in NJ (Princeton area)

Pics of the amp will follow as soon as they are uploaded for access
Please update your profile with that information. :wink:
Tom

Don't let that smoke out!
mwdavis14
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:46 pm
Location: United states

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by mwdavis14 »

I replaced the .5A fast blo fuse and re-ran the start up checks with the bulb limiter in place. HV DC is present and, with the bulb limiter, the following readings occur:

V1:
1: 150.7 v
2: 0
3: .93 v
4: 3.59 v (AC)
5: 3.59 v (AC)
6: 151 v
7: 0
8: .9 v
9: 3.58 v (AC)

V2:
1: 151 v
2: 0
3: 1.25 v
4: 3.58 v (AC)
5: 3.58 v (AC)
6: 156 v
7: 0
8: 1.16 v
9: 3.58 v (AC)

V3:
1: 190.1 v
2: 17 v
3: 26.8 v
4: 3.58 v (AC)
5: 3.58 v (AC)
6: 182 v
7: 17 v
8: 26.8 v
9: 3.58 v (AC)

V4 & V5 (identical readings):
1: 0
2: 3.58 v (AC)
3: 322 v
4: 321 v
5: -37 v
6: 321 v
7: 3.58 v (AC)
8: 0

I realize that these readings will be slightly lowered by the bulb limiter. Unfortunately, as soon as I remove the limiter and connect regular AC line, the fuse immediately blows. Speaker load is connected whenever the tubes are in BTW.

Any thoughts?
Mark
mwdavis14
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:46 pm
Location: United states

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by mwdavis14 »

Because of the fuse blowing situation, I can only perform measurements with the bulb limiter in place. With it set up in that manner, the PT secondary B+ reading at the board is 272 v (AC). I don't know if the bulb limiter lowers that reading, but I assume it does. The PT, OT and Choke were made by Mercury Magnetics specifically for this amp. Spec calls for 345-0-345
Mark
mwdavis14
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:46 pm
Location: United states

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by mwdavis14 »

I measure 322.3v at the standby switch (again, w/the bulb limiter in place)
Mark
User avatar
martin manning
Posts: 14308
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:43 am
Location: 39°06' N 84°30' W

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by martin manning »

Obviously something drawing too much current from the HT for the fuse. The tube voltages look proportionally ok and high enough that it is not a short. I wonder if a slow-blow fuse would hold it? I also wonder why with the limiter in your filament voltage is high (over 7VAC) while the other voltages are low. Pins 1 and 8 on the power tubes should not read 0V. Are you sure you have the 1 ohm current sense resistors and bias test jacks wired correctly?
mwdavis14
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:46 pm
Location: United states

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by mwdavis14 »

I do have a slow blow w/the proper rating. However, the layout calls for fast blow here and I don't have the expertise to comment on safety of slow blow. Can anyone advise if that swap is safe or not?
Mark
mwdavis14
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:46 pm
Location: United states

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by mwdavis14 »

Martin,
I rechecked the filaments, and made a mistake when posting by looking at the wrong list for those. With the limiter in place, the filament pins are running 2.67 v each (total 5.34 vac).

I also rechecked pins 1 & 8 on the power tubes. With the limiter in place, these are reading 5.2 mv.

They are wired per the layout. Pins 1&8 share a leg of the 1R2W resistor which runs to the com point for the bias check, but are otherwise w/o any wiring.

My apologies for the error in my earlier post, and my thanks to you for catching it.
Mark
User avatar
martin manning
Posts: 14308
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:43 am
Location: 39°06' N 84°30' W

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by martin manning »

So the HT fuse blows immediately when you switch power on, with the standby off? If so then there must be some wiring error between the PT HT and the standby.
mwdavis14
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:46 pm
Location: United states

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by mwdavis14 »

No. The fuse blows as soon as the standby switch is thrown to operate. The fuse remains intact w/mains on so long as the amp is in standby
Mark
User avatar
martin manning
Posts: 14308
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:43 am
Location: 39°06' N 84°30' W

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by martin manning »

So it seems the surge of current into the large reservoir caps is taking the fuse out. I would try the slo blow 0.5A fuse.
User avatar
glasman
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:37 pm
Location: Afton, MN (St Croix River Valley)
Contact:

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by glasman »

How about some Resistance measurements (with the POWER OFF) from the V1, V2, V3 and Standby switch to ground as a starting point.

Gary
Located in the St Croix River Valley- Afton, MN
About 5 miles south of I-94
aka K0GWA, K0 Glas Werks Amplification

www.glaswerks.com
User avatar
glasman
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:37 pm
Location: Afton, MN (St Croix River Valley)
Contact:

Re: Seeking help debugging Ceriatone Bluesmaster 50

Post by glasman »

glasman wrote:How about some Resistance measurements (with the POWER OFF) from the V1, V2, V3 and Standby switch to ground as a starting point.

Gary
I am taking about the V1, v2 and V3 power nodes.
Located in the St Croix River Valley- Afton, MN
About 5 miles south of I-94
aka K0GWA, K0 Glas Werks Amplification

www.glaswerks.com
Post Reply