Tremolo speed range?

[VacuumVoodoo]

Guys & Dolls,
in your expert opinion from players perspective, what is the useful range for tremolo speed knob, ie. how many beats per second from slowest to fastest?
Thank you for voicing your opinion in a trembling voice
Seriously, thanks.

[sliberty]

Personally, I often feel the range isn't wide enough. I sometimes like a trem to go slower than the amp can produce, and have modded my brown Princeton's trem to allow slower speeds.

[VacuumVoodoo]

Are you saying 1Hz isn't slow enough for you? How slow do you need to go?

[telentubes]

I would like some slower options on the BFPR I built. I use tremelo a lot but have the speed pot on zero all the time.

[Blackburn]

I would like some slower options on the BFPR I built. I use tremelo a lot but have the speed pot on zero all the time.

Agreed. I like a slooooooowwwww throbbing bias vary. I just built a 6G16 in my 5B6 chassis and it isn't slow enough. Is it just a matter of upping the .01uf caps? Funny too, I prefer the better focused trem in my '66 Princeton with its single triode vs the full 12AX7 in my 6G16 build. The Princeton's trem isn't as thick sounding, but it does a better job with less, in my opinion. The PR isn't slow enough either.

[renshen1957]

Guys & Dolls,
in your expert opinion from players perspective, what is the useful range for tremolo speed knob, ie. how many beats per second from slowest to fastest?
Thank you for voicing your opinion in a trembling voice
Seriously, thanks.

Hi Aleksander,

The average player doesn't count beats per second or know how to calculate frequency rates; they only think in relative terms (slow, slower, slowest, and not slow enough).

Even then, I guess you can't please all of the people, all of the time. Short of a pot that goes from none to too damn fast there is always going to be someone who wants it slower and maybe possibly faster.

Besides rate there is depth of the tremolo. Another kettle of fish or is that a can of worms?

I have found divergent opinion as to what is the best type of tremolo: Fender Black Face, Fender 6G series (2 1/2 tubes), bias modulated or preamp cap modulation (Hohner, Garnet), etc.

Another question, before or after the reverb/effects loop?

The tremolo on the Vox AC30 was lifted (what wasn't) from a Wurlitzer Organ circuit. Three speeds, which is what I experience on most of the Church organs I've played over the years from Electronic Tube Organs, to Solid State, and later in most digital organs.

The "advantage"(?) was it was easy to find in a hurry (organists have to change stops quickly) rather than trying to dial in a setting. The pipe I've played organs usually had one speed chosen by the builder the option of on or off on one stop.

Good luck in your survey.

Steve

PS Have you seen KOC's Wide Range Tremelo circuit in Tonnes of Tones?

[VacuumVoodoo]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for taking time to write a very clarifying post. I keep forgetting that majority of guitarists/musicians aren't comfortable with Hertz and beats/sec.
I am always surprised when asked if the hum they hear in amp's loudspeaker is 60 or 120Hz (or 50 vs 100) they most often can't tell.
The poll is to keep me from going of the deep end and designing an amplitude modulator fit for Keith Emersons Moog.
I haven't seen KOC's tremolo circuit, even though I know him personally, and other than TUT4 haven't seen his other books
Anyway, it seems that covering the speed range of the put-put sound of vintage Harley engine from lazy idling to semi relaxed cruise
is what you might call pretty slow to fast. Depth control from gentle to H-D full throttle.

[Leo_Gnardo]

I voted 1 to 7. Many Fender amps I slow the low end down by replacing or paralleling one of the caps in the LFO for a moody throb effect. Some players are "over the top" happy about this. By choosing speed and picking carefully some get a "backwards guitar" effect. (If you haven't tried it, give it a go.) OTOH nobody I know has a use for a super fast trem.

Late 70's to early 90's I got a lot of calls to replace the vibrato controls on BF and SF Fenders with other options. Nobody had any use for trem/vib at that time. Around here the blues guys revived a need for it and in a couple cases I've restored the wobbulator in amps where either someone else or I had removed it.

Good poll VV!

[renshen1957]

Hi Steve,
Thanks for taking time to write a very clarifying post. I keep forgetting that majority of guitarists/musicians aren't comfortable with Hertz and beats/sec.
I am always surprised when asked if the hum they hear in amp's loudspeaker is 60 or 120Hz (or 50 vs 100) they most often can't tell.
The poll is to keep me from going of the deep end and designing an amplitude modulator fit for Keith Emersons Moog.
I haven't seen KOC's tremolo circuit, even though I know him personally, and other than TUT4 haven't seen his other books
Anyway, it seems that covering the speed range of the put-put sound of vintage Harley engine from lazy idling to semi relaxed cruise
is what you might call pretty slow to fast. Depth control from gentle to H-D full throttle.

Hi Aleksander,

The wide range tremendous is an oscillator with a high impedance buffer stage monitoring the wave form across the timing capacitor to produce a sawtooth wave. The circuit uses a TL072 IC (or equivalent) IC and a transistor. The is also a schematic to power the circuit with the B+.

Tonnes of Tones is a beginners book, but it has some great ideas as every book by KOC, that are springboard to new circuits and applications, food for thought. You might enjoy TUT volume 6, it could as easily been called part two of volume 4.

Always pleasure to read your posts.

Best regards,

Steve

[sliberty]

Personally, I often feel the range isn't wide enough. I sometimes like a trem to go slower than the amp can produce, and have modded my brown Princeton's trem to allow slower speeds.

[Milkmansound]

slow and deep - thats the way to go!

at a high speed most Fender amps lose their oscillation anyway - keep it stable by experimenting with values

[Firestorm]

Any thoughts on wave shape? With the optical ones, you're at the mercy of the reaction/recovery characteristics of the LDR, but in the bias vary versions wave shape should have clear effects.

[dorrisant]

To be able to flip a switch located next to the trem controls to change the speed range... Now that would be interesting! Seems there is never enough range, one way or another.

Tony

[Leo_Gnardo]

To be able to flip a switch located next to the trem controls to change the speed range... Now that would be interesting! Seems there is never enough range, one way or another.

Tony

All you'd have to do is switch in/out one cap. Brilliant! Or even a pull-switch BUT.. speed control is typically reverse taper, where does one find that combo?

If reversing the slo-fast direction is acceptable the a 1M log/aud taper with pull switch could be put to work here. Those are available. Caps could be scaled a little larger to work with the 1M pot instead of 3M as commonly found in Fenders.

[renshen1957]

Any thoughts on wave shape? With the optical ones, you're at the mercy of the reaction/recovery characteristics of the LDR, but in the bias vary versions wave shape should clear effects.

Hi,

Triangle and sawtooth waves variety also effect tremolo which switches a caps in and out in the preamp.

Best regards,

Steve