General disclaimer and waiver of liability

[xtian]

Is there a layer in the house?

We've talked a lot about the legal hazards of building and selling amps. But I don't want to form a corporation, and I don't want to buy extra insurance. But I would be willing to ask buyers to sign a document.

Has anyone had experience with a general waiver of liability? Could I have my buyers sign a waiver so they agree not to sue me if my amp shocks them or burns their house down?

Check out the search results: http://www.google.com/search?client=saf ... +liability

[amplifiednation]

I've been thinking about this too. I think the liability insurance is inexpensive but still who wants to carry it to just sell a few amps?

[Leo_Gnardo]

Is there a layer in the house?

Gotta be a typo. Do you mean "liar?"

[Reeltarded]

Nothing but peril inside. The last guy that opened one of these was never seen or heard from again. Opening this device voids all warranty and liability. Goodbye, idiot.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Nothing but peril inside. The last guy that opened one of these was never seen or heard from again. Opening this device voids all warranty and liability.

Hm. yeh, like that! What did they put on old maps - "Demons here" - in unexplored areas.

Follow Mr. Dumble's lead. Have buyers sign a contract that states they promise to never open the amp or let anyone else look inside either (to avoid having anyone "analize" it - Dumble's spelling - hmmm, "analize", what was he REALLY worried about?)

Seriously though, liability is what keeps me from building more amps for other people. Bad enough I fix amps. I'd have to raise my repair rates to $200 an hour if I had to pay insurance for this that & the next thing. Walkin' on water, so far so good. There will be growth in the spring.

[ToneMerc]

Is there a layer in the house?

We've talked a lot about the legal hazards of building and selling amps. But I don't want to form a corporation, and I don't want to buy extra insurance. But I would be willing to ask buyers to sign a document.

Has anyone had experience with a general waiver of liability? Could I have my buyers sign a waiver so they agree not to sue me if my amp shocks them or burns their house down?

Check out the search results: http://www.google.com/search?client=saf ... +liability

I'm no lawyer; but have signed those forms, had students and clients sign those forms and at one time carried a 3M personal policy.

In a nutshell, these forms are relatively 100% useless for amp building. They generally apply to single events and activities that can be or are inherently dangerous to particpate in. For amp building, you would need product liability insurance.

Ok, so you don't want to buy insurance; now even having insurance does not prevent you from being sued. If you are sued, you will need to hire an attorney and mostly likely will need 5K to 10K for the retainer fee just to be represented.

So, if you are sued, can you afford to defend yourself out of pocket and can you afford to self insure yourself against a judgement of lets say 5,000, 50,000 or 500,000 dollars?

Anybody that tells you can sell a homebuilt amp on Ebay and be released of any liability by having some 2 sentence disclaimer in the ad or sign a piece of paper, let them represent you in court.

What's cheaper a $500 year policy or possibilty losing everything you have just to defend yourself or settle.

TM

[Teleguy61]

If you have liability insurance and there is a claim, the insurance company will provide an attorney, whose job it is to defend the insurance company's interests, not yours.
If the case goes against you, and the insurance company has to pay out,
they may come after you to recover their loss.
Just how it works.

[ToneMerc]

If you have liability insurance and there is a claim, the insurance company will provide an attorney, whose job it is to defend the insurance company's interests, not yours.
If the case goes against you, and the insurance company has to pay out,
they may come after you to recover their loss.
Just how it works.

Exactly, if you have lots of assets and can afford to be self insured or can afford to defend yourself, maybe roll the dice. There's lot of advantages of incorporation or insurance and even then you might not be totally free from loss.

Now here's a true story. A decades experienced benchrest gunsmith built a short range benchrest targret rifle for one of his best friends who was an active BR competitor. These custom single shot rifles are terribly accurate and typically as a given have custom aftermarket triggers without safeties that break around 1.5 ozs.

Well the shooter was practicing at his home range and something happened, it discharged and shot him in the thigh, unfortunately he bled out before the ambulance arrived.

The wife which was the executor of his estate sued the gunsmith friend for wrongful death because he sold a rifle without safety.


Lesson here; the party that is suing you, may not view you on the same terms as the person that you intially had businness with.


TM

[Reeltarded]

Weld it shut with a placard that says don't be stupid next to the lock for the hidden latch that opens it and discharges all the caps on a spring loaded antenna that pops out to about where his lips would be.

No, I meant the lawyer.

POP! Goes the weasle.

Not for sale in the EU.

[Leo_Gnardo]

The wife which was the executor of his estate sued the gunsmith friend for wrongful death because he sold a rifle without safety.

Lesson here; the party that is suing you, may view you on the same terms as the person that you intially had businness with.

TM

2 questions. First, if I'm not mistaken Glock pistols have no safety either. Nothing custom about them. How do you think it would have gone if the accident had taken place with a Glock? (Plenty of cops have shot themselves in the leg/foot taking Glocks out of holsters, I've read. Lawsuits there?)

2nd, did you mean to put a "not" between may and view?

One of these days I'm going to have to quiz you on those .14 cal wildcats you were showing a couple weeks ago.

With respect & best wishes, LG.

[ToneMerc]

The wife which was the executor of his estate sued the gunsmith friend for wrongful death because he sold a rifle without safety.

Lesson here; the party that is suing you, may not view you on the same terms as the person that you intially had businness with.

TM

2 questions. First, if I'm not mistaken Glock pistols have no safety either. Nothing custom about them. How do you think it would have gone if the accident had taken place with a Glock? (Plenty of cops have shot themselves in the leg/foot taking Glocks out of holsters, I've read. Lawsuits there?)

2nd, did you mean to put a "not" between may and view?

One of these days I'm going to have to quiz you on those .14 cal wildcats you were showing a couple weeks ago.

With respect & best wishes, LG.

Leo I was taught in Glock armorers school that it has 3 (technically all internal) safeties. However, at first glance it does not to appear to have any external safeties because unlike let's say a 1911, there is no frame mounted safety to engage or disengage. I always get a kick when in the movies I hear someone cock an external hammer or disengage a safety while holding a Glock pistol.

The closest thing to an psuedo external safety is one integrated on the trigger shoe. I guess it didn't work to well for the NYPD because one of first replacement parts available was a heavier trigger spring assembly called the NY trigger. Because of the extraordinary number of accidental discharges experienced by the NYPD, a heavier spring kit was created with the hopes of reducing AD's.

I always tell folks a Glock is no different from a revolver; if it's cocked, has a round in the chamber and you fully pull the trigger, it will go bang.

IMHO, ironically these "lawyers triggers" make the pistol so harder to shoot.

Yes, I left out a word, corrected now...thanks

TM

[sepulchre]

Sooo, if a guy buys an amp at a garage sale, goes home, stands in a puddle while playing and gets electrocuted, the one running the garage sale is liable?

[Reeltarded]

Maybe. We all agreed to it in the fine print.

[Structo]

How about mounting a chassis cover secured by screws, then have a sticker that goes on the chassis and bottom plate like a seal that says:

Warranty Invalid if Seal is Broken.

No User Serviceable Components Inside.

Risk of Electrocution if opened.

[Leo_Gnardo]

Sooo, if a guy buys an amp at a garage sale, goes home, stands in a puddle while playing and gets electrocuted, the one running the garage sale is liable?

I used to get called to set up & run PA at a local college some years ago. Some of the bands were touring pros, but there were lots of student bands too. And some of them were quite good! They also hed me doing repairs on their gear. One student - a guitarist - had me repair his MusicMan combo, and you know they have 700V B+ supplies. Well, at outdoor concerts this guy liked to play in his bare feet, and would also jump off the stage into the grass and boogie around in the nearby crowd while twanging his guitar. I'm sure you can see the potential for disaster. Lucky for all of us he never got zapped. Had me plenty worried though. If he had gotten electrocuted, who's in the line of fire legally? Me, the school, the school's electrician that set up power for the stage, the amp manufacturer, everybody but Santa Claus. Hey how about the guitarist himself? I warned him about the danger but he chose not to pay attention.