Higher gain build

[dcribbs1412]

Have a MC Bassman style PT and Marshall style 50 watt OT
and I'm contemplating a higher gain build(6L6's)...looking at the Soldano Avenger/HR50 for ideas after hearing some decent clips.
Wondering if I should include the buffered loop(loop is before tone stack) or keep it simple. I like the tube loops in the D style and Naylor style builds.
Not sure how the loop sounds/acts pre TS in these builds.
(quick mockup of pre board less bias and power)

Suggestions and or comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Darin

[Smokebreak]

FWIW I built a 2x6V6 Avenger out of old AO-50 organ iron and could not believe how awesomely sinister crunchy it is. IIRC I dropped the filtering quite a bit, used a resistor in place of choke, and ran lower voltages(430?) than SLO types. Other than that, straight from the Avenger schem. It is unbelievably loud too. I think lowering V and filtering helped it not sound so sterile like some super high gain amps but that's a guess. Sorry, I'm no help with fx loops.Sounds incredible as a simple amp , though.

[dcribbs1412]

FWIW I built a 2x6V6 Avenger out of old AO-50 organ iron and could not believe how awesomely sinister crunchy it is. IIRC I dropped the filtering quite a bit, used a resistor in place of choke, and ran lower voltages(430?) than SLO types. Other than that, straight from the Avenger schem. It is unbelievably loud too. I think lowering V and filtering helped it not sound so sterile like some super high gain amps but that's a guess. Sorry, I'm no help with fx loops.Sounds incredible as a simple amp , though.

Thanks Smoke
sounds like a nice build.
I hope I can make it happen.
I'm also thinking about dropping the filtering down to around 100uf(2x220uf)or so and 20-40 on the nodes. I have a Marshall 5hy choke I was thinking of using. I'm hoping to keep voltages down to run some NOS(6L6) tubes if possible
I'm not sure how accurate the schem I have is, but it seems like a lot of PS filtering.

Darin

[JazzGuitarGimp]

FWIW I built a 2x6V6 Avenger out of old AO-50 organ iron and could not believe how awesomely sinister crunchy it is. IIRC I dropped the filtering quite a bit, used a resistor in place of choke, and ran lower voltages(430?) than SLO types. Other than that, straight from the Avenger schem. It is unbelievably loud too. I think lowering V and filtering helped it not sound so sterile like some super high gain amps but that's a guess. Sorry, I'm no help with fx loops.Sounds incredible as a simple amp , though.

Thanks Smoke
sounds like a nice build.
I hope I can make it happen.
I'm also thinking about dropping the filtering down to around 100uf(2x220uf)or so and 20-40 on the nodes. I have a Marshall 5hy choke I was thinking of using. I'm hoping to keep voltages down to run some NOS(6L6) tubes if possible
I'm not sure how accurate the schem I have is, but it seems like a lot of PS filtering.

Darin

If you're planning on using this PS circuit, you should add a similar voltage divider across the second set of 220uF caps. It will ensure that the voltage each cap sees will not exceed its rated voltage.

Cheers!

[Smokebreak]

Yep that's the same schematic I worked from that was floating around sloclone forum. I seem to remember it was unverified, and it was one of my first builds, but I just went for it and it worked out fine. I just checked and I just used 1 40uf500v for the reservoir and then 20uf450v on down. I didn't have much room either though. If I build another I'd do the series cap thing to be on the safe side w voltage dividers. A lot of these types of amps use tons of filtering to get those lows super tight, 100uf sounds fine. Depends how much tightness vs looseness/ compression/sag you want...i think .Also, I star grounded the crap out of mine. Every single ground had its own run to its stage-specific cap, then each one of thse to 1 ground point. Overkill perhaps, and tons of ground runs but maybe the quietest amp I've ever built.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

I like your grounding scheme. When space permits, I think it's a good idea to get the filter caps right on the main eyelet / turret board, as close to the circuitry they power.

[M Fowler]

Look at this thread if haven't already.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... ht=avenger

[Smokebreak]

Damn that is a good looking build. Mine is mess! By the looks of your board dcribbs, you're well on your way to a looker too. Dig the orange board.

[dcribbs1412]

FWIW I built a 2x6V6 Avenger out of old AO-50 organ iron and could not believe how awesomely sinister crunchy it is. IIRC I dropped the filtering quite a bit, used a resistor in place of choke, and ran lower voltages(430?) than SLO types. Other than that, straight from the Avenger schem. It is unbelievably loud too. I think lowering V and filtering helped it not sound so sterile like some super high gain amps but that's a guess. Sorry, I'm no help with fx loops.Sounds incredible as a simple amp , though.

Thanks Smoke
sounds like a nice build.
I hope I can make it happen.
I'm also thinking about dropping the filtering down to around 100uf(2x220uf)or so and 20-40 on the nodes. I have a Marshall 5hy choke I was thinking of using. I'm hoping to keep voltages down to run some NOS(6L6) tubes if possible
I'm not sure how accurate the schem I have is, but it seems like a lot of PS filtering.

Darin

If you're planning on using this PS circuit, you should add a similar voltage divider across the second set of 220uF caps. It will ensure that the voltage each cap sees will not exceed its rated voltage.

Cheers!

Thanks I'm looking at running the PS more like this schem (SL 60)
a little lower filtering, not sure about the 1m across the 100uf caps?

Yep that's the same schematic I worked from that was floating around sloclone forum. I seem to remember it was unverified, and it was one of my first builds, but I just went for it and it worked out fine. I just checked and I just used 1 40uf500v for the reservoir and then 20uf450v on down. I didn't have much room either though. If I build another I'd do the series cap thing to be on the safe side w voltage dividers. A lot of these types of amps use tons of filtering to get those lows super tight, 100uf sounds fine. Depends how much tightness vs looseness/ compression/sag you want...i think .Also, I star grounded the crap out of mine. Every single ground had its own run to its stage-specific cap, then each one of thse to 1 ground point. Overkill perhaps, and tons of ground runs but maybe the quietest amp I've ever built.

Thanks Smoke
I will do as you suggest and "grounded the crap out of it "
This worries me the most...I hope to get it as quiet as possible.

Look at this thread if haven't already.

https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.ph ... ht=avenger

Thanks Mark
This is the thread that started me thinking I could actually do this.
IMO dynaman and Normster are/have been major assets to this forum.

Darin

[JazzGuitarGimp]

I would keep the 1M resistors in the power supply to make sure neither of the caps is exposed to a voltage higher than it is rated for.

However, this schematic - are you absolutely certain it is correct? From what I can see, it employs a full wave bridge with the negative terminal grounded. Then there also appears to be a canter tap on the PT, which is also grounded. I am pretty certain this is going to cause a short. I'll let some of the more experienced people chime-in here. But I question the accuracy of the schematic.

[roberto]

What's the B+ you foresee for this project?

A bassman should be around 430V IIRC, but this is too low for Soldano hi gain OD.

I'd go for something like Bogner.

[dcribbs1412]

What's the B+ you foresee for this project?

A bassman should be around 430V IIRC, but this is too low for Soldano hi gain OD.

I'd go for something like Bogner.

Roberto
I was thinking around 462V unloaded...330x1.4 with SS rec. - 6% = around 435V not sure that is the right way to calculate, but you would be correct.
As Smokebreak
mentioned earlier I'm hoping the lower voltages and lower filtering
will balance out and give it a good sound. I may be dreaming...
BTW which Bogner are you suggesting?
I have to see if I have any Bogner schems

Thanks
Darin

[dcribbs1412]

I would keep the 1M resistors in the power supply to make sure neither of the caps is exposed to a voltage higher than it is rated for.

However, this schematic - are you absolutely certain it is correct? From what I can see, it employs a full wave bridge with the negative terminal grounded. Then there also appears to be a canter tap on the PT, which is also grounded. I am pretty certain this is going to cause a short. I'll let some of the more experienced people chime-in here. But I question the accuracy of the schematic.

Hi Jazz
I see your point
I was using the schem for power supply filter reference.
This is the other schem I've been also looking at. Notice the high filtering
and no FWB.

Darin

[roberto]

I'm hoping the lower voltages and lower filtering
will balance out and give it a good sound.

Hi Darin,
the Bogner Extacy (whatever version you find), in my opinion, is the way to go with the PT and OT you have. Xtc's reamp sounds good with lower voltages (Soldano not so much).

[Miket]

FWIW I built a 2x6V6 Avenger out of old AO-50 organ iron and could not believe how awesomely sinister crunchy it is. IIRC I dropped the filtering quite a bit, used a resistor in place of choke, and ran lower voltages(430?) than SLO types. Other than that, straight from the Avenger schem. It is unbelievably loud too. I think lowering V and filtering helped it not sound so sterile like some super high gain amps but that's a guess. Sorry, I'm no help with fx loops.Sounds incredible as a simple amp , though.

Hi smokebreak, I have an old push pull 6v6 pa amp that I want to rebuild into an avenger. What circuit changes did you have to make to allow it to run with 6v6's?