My oldest has decided not to go to college.

[ER]

I would say encourage her to take some classes at the local community college, even while in high school. Get all the GE stuff out of the way and figure out what path to take at lower tuition. If you can each her entrepreneurial skills right now I think that's the future. Unless there's a very specific cog in the machine that your kid is passionate about filling, a degree is a waste of time and money.

I don't know where all the 80% of businesses fail come from, probably from banks who have an agenda to keep us all wage slaves, of which college is a part, student loan debt is mighty fine leverage to get people in line. You learn a lot more being the person who started the business and failed than being one of the grunts that worked for that business and was laid off. The reason I went to college was because I got sick of making other people rich with all my labor at piss wages when the business succeeded, or getting laid off when they didn't .

The thing is you don't need a degree to start a business, only to get better wages working for someone who did start one.

By that same reasoning what percentage of "jobs" fail? In other words how many jobs now days starting out will you be able to retire from? I would put that failure rate a lot higher than 80%.

Almost all the crap you will hear from "experts" is just that, crap. Fear based lower chakra ego control matrix crap.

My dad got his teaching degree taught for less than one year and then went back to working at the hay market bucking hay because he was happier.

I graduated at age 38, never thought I was like the college kids (rich or smart enough) but I did it to prove it to myself. Went to work for the government got totally stressed out and now I'm on disability for anxiety disorder and depression. My wife worked her way through college and we're used to living poor, so we have zero debt. I had about 10 grand in student loans when I graduated and payed it all off ASAP. So I have my degree and it's paid for, maybe I'll use it again someday, but I'd rather work for myself and may have to anyways unless my health and mental state recover.

A good friend of mine started a business out of his bedroom at age 14, quit the business to go to school, dropped out on academic probation, restarted his business and now it's a multi-million dollar company that employs his father and brother and he works from home designing processor chips self taught, among a handful of other things that he takes interest in.

Love your kids and support them in their dreams. Of course we worry, it's because we love them so much, let them know that's the reason.

Oh yeah, and find a way to gently tell your daughter that punk rockers make really bad role models, most of them were self-destructive scumbag druggies and should not be emulated in anyway other than creative expression and angst against the system, lifestyle choices not so much.

Music is a hobby, not a plan B unless you have connections AND exceptional talent. You can have less talent if you have the right connections but not any longevity. You can also be exceptionally talented and get nowhere. I'm sure we've all seen this a million times. Share your experiences with her and teach her what you know about that side of music if that's what she's interested in right now.

[JazzGuitarGimp]

No to sound too hippy dippy here, but I think there's a lot to be said for NOT buying into "the man's" plan. And by "the man", I mean the system, not dad. With a degree, I think there are two basic choices: Go to work for someone else, where you may earn a fair wage, but certainly won't be paid what you're worth; or strike out on your own, and either sink or swim. Both of these options can be (and usually are) very stressful. And for what? A nice car in the driveway and a house with a spectacular view? So what? The world needs people to bag groceries. It doesn't pay much, but it's very low stress, assuming you're willing to live within your means. You just might live longer for it too.

[LeftyStrat]

Thanks for the replies guys. She's always been industrious. She is the go to baby sitter for the entire neighborhood, and actually has to turn down jobs. She does show good organization skills.

She's really into music and is almost like a walking encyclopedia on the subject. I suggested she might like journalism and become a rock critic. She told me rock critics are just failed musicians.

She's also really into woodworking, so I suggested something like the Rhode Island School of design. Her mother suggested SCAD. She didn't seem too interested.

She is fiercely independent and wants to have her own place. I figure I'll let her move out and perhaps when she doesn't have daddy paying for her rent, food, and internet access, maybe she will have a better idea of what she wants to do with her life.

I ended up in a career completely different than what I studied in college. So maybe she'll figure out what she wants later on.

[Phil_S]

You've put a whole new spin on this mentioning SCAD and RISD. I worked at MICA for almost 12 years (as a business officer), so I learned enough about fine arts colleges to be dangerous. Let's say it was a real eye opener and I came to respect an art education. What I learned is that each college has its own philosophy and approach to teaching art. You really have to probe hard to understand these differences, while not subtle, are a bit opaque to the non-artist. It is also a huge financial commitment. In my personal experience, I saw students graduate and become...well...not much of anything, and then I saw others rise rapidly to very successful jobs or launch a very successful business. If they graduate, they have very good marketable skills and better yet, they acquire good problem solving skills and good work habits.

Fine arts are often offered at public institutions, too, but without the insular art-only environment. See if you can just get her to visit a few places. It might excite her. I might go so far as offering her a bribe of sorts to make a few college visits. See if you can get her to pick the places.

BTW, lots of us end up doing something other than what we initially study. I have a BA in social sciences. I'm an accountant -- took several years as an adult student at night school.

[Reeltarded]

I live in SCADelvaynia.

Please make it an online course. Thank you!

[boots]

My folks forced me to go to college right after HS cuz they thought I would lose my momentum and never go if I didn't do it right away. Looking back, I would have been better off taking a year or two and working before going to college. I ended up "picking" a major (geology) because we got to go on camping trips and drink a lot of beer. Almost 30 years later, I am grinding along in a profession that probably hasn't been the best fit for me. Making decent money, grant you, but not really enjoying what I do every day.

Lefty, I vote for letting your daughter experience the world for a while. A year or two of minimum wage, and she will probably figure out what she wants to do with her life.

Hell, I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up....

[LeftyStrat]

She actually did say she wanted to take a welding course at the local community college, so maybe she'll kick around a bit take a few course and find something she likes.

I don't care really about college as much as I care about her finding something she loves and is passionate about. And ultimately, that she is happy.

[Reeltarded]

Welding? All the new stuff is being made out of epoxy and nano cloth. Tell her to learn to be a seamstress and make glue. Dood, you owe me.

(congratulate yourself with a new amp)

Do you have a gold kimono? Throw it on and tell her she has passed the test. I saw it on TV.

[LeftyStrat]

Actually, she just informed me I was wrong. She's already learned how to weld in her high school metal working class. It was screen printing she wanted to take a course in. She already hand paints t-shirts and sells them to friends.

My wife just sent her and email to this:

http://www.makerhaus.com

It's right down the road from us. Maybe after she plays with a 3D printer she'll want to learn to code.

[Reeltarded]

Oh great. Another haXor.

Why not just tell her to buy GTA:Miami?

[TNblueshawk]

Lefty, any thoughts on how this affects your youngest(s) if she doesn't go to college?

Off the cuff my initial reaction is her reason for not going is maybe not a good one. I don't recommend any of us follow in the footsteps of Iggy. Most will die doing so, in fact many have.

I'm still a believer in that notion if you don't get some kind of degree in your tool box you are screwed. Sure there are exceptions and you would know better than anyone here if she is one of them.

The whole debt issue with college is something I didn't have to tangle with. Of course I was fine with going to a normal run o the mill college too and didn't need to go to a big name college to satisfy me, not that pops would have any of it anyway. I ended up paying for half my tuition after being on academic probation and my Dad saying I have one semester to get straight or I can find a place to live. I got straight. Had he not said that I'd at best be a loser pot head with no future, little income and just scraping by or at least there would be a very good chance of that, trust me. Worst case? Well, I think you can guess.

As you can see I'm old school in my thinking. I don't see anything out there that changes that for me other than trying to figure out how to deal with the cost. Where I work, no degree, no job and I know plenty of other places just like that. But I'm talking the "business world" which ain't for everyone, hell it ain't for me either but here I am

Good luck either way.

[LeftyStrat]

I have a son in the middle, and it looks like he won't be college material. He's only a sophomore in high school and it is a struggle to get him to do his homework. He does fine on tests, he just has little motivation. Which is a real downer. When he was in elementary school, one of his teachers called him "MIT smart."

My youngest daughter is still in middle school, but she's doing well. She seems to have a real talent for photography. The high school has a program for film and video production, and at least one student had their film shown at Cannes. She's really interested in that program, and I think she has found her passion. I'll be in a world of hurt if she decides on Berkeley Film Institute. That's one of the places I wanted to go. It's $10k a semester.

My wife and I have talked and decided the oldest will probably be okay. Morgan said she just doesn't yet know what she wants to do, and that maybe in a couple of years she will reconsider.

[jrittvo]

Yep. I think facilitating the time to explore and figure things out is the best opportunity a parent can sometimes provide for their children. Not everybody moves in a straight line or on a fixed schedule that is the same as everyone else's.

In this economy, a year or two or three gaining some self understanding (and if one is lucky finding a direction forward based on a passion) is not a bad investment of time.

[LeftyStrat]

Yep. I think facilitating the time to explore and figure things out is the best opportunity a parent can sometimes provide for their children. Not everybody moves in a straight line or on a fixed schedule that is the same as everyone else's.

I'm starting to come around to the idea. I don't know why her decision took me by surprise. Both her mother and I are pretty unconventional (and that might be an understatement). Everyone that has met our kids think they are incredibly mature for their age. I think it is because we gave them a lot of freedom and treated them like adults.

Ever since they were old enough to talk, we made them place their own order in a restaurant.

I think sometimes parents do too much for their kids. You got to let them skin that knee, so they know what it feels like. Teach by example and keep them alive. And let them live their own life.

Okay. Thanks to everyone. You guys put me at ease. Maybe we should rename Garage Talk to Group Therapy.

[briane]

She actually did say she wanted to take a welding course at the local community college

I keep telling kids go to school become a welder or machinist - then go to the shipyard, railroad, or military and get a lifelong carreer.

Lots of jobs there - and when a big ship comes into the shipyard - thats job security for the welders.

Plus you can travel the world if you want with those skills.