http://www.trainwreck.com/stephen.html
I'm sorry if this has come up before, but a search on the forum yielded no results for me.
Did you guys read this?
Moderators: pompeiisneaks, Colossal
Re: Did you guys read this?
Now that Ken's gone, who really controls that domain? What are this guys motives? Who is he anyway?
It may be true; no amp will quite sound like a Trainwreck except one Ken built. What are the other 10,000 saps like me supposed to do that can't afford a $30,000 amp? Sure going to get as close as I can.
I don't need him to feel bad for me.
Trying to match up who "he" says is off the mark is kinda like a mystery game. Notice he didn't invoke any Ken quotes, unlike the front page tract.
It may be true; no amp will quite sound like a Trainwreck except one Ken built. What are the other 10,000 saps like me supposed to do that can't afford a $30,000 amp? Sure going to get as close as I can.
I don't need him to feel bad for me.
Trying to match up who "he" says is off the mark is kinda like a mystery game. Notice he didn't invoke any Ken quotes, unlike the front page tract.
Re: Did you guys read this?
The whole front page Ken Fischer quote stuff just seems to me like so much "mojo" magical mumbo jumbo. The line:
"I’ve tried to teach family and friends to build these amps for me, but to no avail. They never sound right." amazes me.
If you can't teach or explain something then I'd say it's logic (or at least it's basis in math) is suspect. Also, I'd say that if KF was the only one who could could tweak an amp to sound right to his ears, then it was his ears he was tweaking them for and no one elses. If the KF tweaked trainwrecks were the only good sounding amps out there, all of the top players would have one.
I think the key to building a great clone (as was shown by the recent thread "It's finished and I hate it") is the tweaking for one's self or for the player who is buying it. No doubt KF was an excellent amp man. Now that he's gone (a great loss), we can expect his memory to take on god like status. It is too bad we lost him.
"I’ve tried to teach family and friends to build these amps for me, but to no avail. They never sound right." amazes me.
If you can't teach or explain something then I'd say it's logic (or at least it's basis in math) is suspect. Also, I'd say that if KF was the only one who could could tweak an amp to sound right to his ears, then it was his ears he was tweaking them for and no one elses. If the KF tweaked trainwrecks were the only good sounding amps out there, all of the top players would have one.
I think the key to building a great clone (as was shown by the recent thread "It's finished and I hate it") is the tweaking for one's self or for the player who is buying it. No doubt KF was an excellent amp man. Now that he's gone (a great loss), we can expect his memory to take on god like status. It is too bad we lost him.
Great things happen in a vacuum
Re: Did you guys read this?
someone email him and ask for proof of ownership of the trainwreck name.
i doubt he has it.
germ
i doubt he has it.
germ
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Jessie 160
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:18 pm
- Location: New Jersey
Re: Did you guys read this?
The site is legitimate. Stephen ran the site for Ken before and is continuing to do so now with the consent and full knowledge of the family. He is a great guy and all that is said there is accurate. The quote was from Ken. Ken and I were good friends for 35 years and I continue to remain close with the family. I grew up in Colonia and still live less than 10 minutes from the Fischer home. I only mention this so you know that my knowledge is first hand. Ken's death has been extemely painful to me and disruptive to my life. I read these posts out of curiosity, but choose to rarely post myself unless I feel I have something worthwhile or necessary to post.
Re: Did you guys read this?
I feel for your loss; I didn't know Ken but sure wish I had. He seemed to be one of the genuine good guys.
Have read and understand the homepage for the site. Basically, Ken said it seems only he could really make a Trainwreck sounding amp. The few glimpses into his genius has convinced me that without a lot of work, and a LOT of luck, this is probably true.
I can understand Stephens, and the family's, wishes to keep the Trainwreck name pure. Use of the Trainwreck name in a commercial enterprise should be protected.
What I find a bit misleading is in the link above to "Stephens" page. Especially " And I know there are forums out there that show Trainwreck schematics and advertise parts that supposedly will allow someone to build an amp that might sound like a Trainwreck. I feel bad for the people who buy this stuff and put together mediocre to lousy sounding amps".
He has not done his homework, or looked at this site lately lately. I'm still midway thru my build, so can't say for mine, but I've heard a number of clips of some express inspired amps made by members here that sound fantastic. Are any of them there yet? There are a few that are pretty dang close, but even at that, sound great in their own right.
Prime recent example: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=2877&start=0
De facto, this site is a Tribute to Ken. The more folks dig, the more evident it is how much a genius he was.
Have read and understand the homepage for the site. Basically, Ken said it seems only he could really make a Trainwreck sounding amp. The few glimpses into his genius has convinced me that without a lot of work, and a LOT of luck, this is probably true.
I can understand Stephens, and the family's, wishes to keep the Trainwreck name pure. Use of the Trainwreck name in a commercial enterprise should be protected.
What I find a bit misleading is in the link above to "Stephens" page. Especially " And I know there are forums out there that show Trainwreck schematics and advertise parts that supposedly will allow someone to build an amp that might sound like a Trainwreck. I feel bad for the people who buy this stuff and put together mediocre to lousy sounding amps".
He has not done his homework, or looked at this site lately lately. I'm still midway thru my build, so can't say for mine, but I've heard a number of clips of some express inspired amps made by members here that sound fantastic. Are any of them there yet? There are a few that are pretty dang close, but even at that, sound great in their own right.
Prime recent example: https://tubeamparchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=2877&start=0
De facto, this site is a Tribute to Ken. The more folks dig, the more evident it is how much a genius he was.
Last edited by gearhead on Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Did you guys read this?
I had talked to Ken and he was a nice guy, nobody deserves to die before their time. This is meant as no disrespect at all.
But the only time an amp can not be reproduced is when it is bordering on the lines of instability which could be the case. I have yet to see anything really "unique" in circuit design. There is no real reason an amp can not be setup for production providing the "right" people are available. Which isnt always easy. I find the tone of the pages demeaning but that is just me I guess
But the only time an amp can not be reproduced is when it is bordering on the lines of instability which could be the case. I have yet to see anything really "unique" in circuit design. There is no real reason an amp can not be setup for production providing the "right" people are available. Which isnt always easy. I find the tone of the pages demeaning but that is just me I guess
Re: Did you guys read this?
The other side of the coin would be that your logic wasn't flawed, you just sucked as a teacher or you had pupils incapable of learning. Personally I am not in the business of building amps. I don't earn my living building amps. This is a hobby to me, and If I remember right Ken gave us permission to clone / study his designs for personal use. I might even build a amp or two to sell to friends who couldn't do it themselves, but I don't have any interest in going into business building Ken's amps. So why would Stephen feel like we are the scum of the earth and say those things regarding this forum. He makes it sound like TW is still in business and we are hurting their business. In their own words if Ken was the only person in the world to be able to get the TW sound out of an amp then the company won't be able to build anymore without Ken.bnwitt wrote:The whole front page Ken Fischer quote stuff just seems to me like so much "mojo" magical mumbo jumbo. The line:
"I’ve tried to teach family and friends to build these amps for me, but to no avail. They never sound right." amazes me.
If you can't teach or explain something then I'd say it's logic (or at least it's basis in math) is suspect. Also, I'd say that if KF was the only one who could could tweak an amp to sound right to his ears, then it was his ears he was tweaking them for and no one elses. If the KF tweaked trainwrecks were the only good sounding amps out there, all of the top players would have one.
I think the key to building a great clone (as was shown by the recent thread "It's finished and I hate it") is the tweaking for one's self or for the player who is buying it. No doubt KF was an excellent amp man. Now that he's gone (a great loss), we can expect his memory to take on god like status. It is too bad we lost him.
If you want to go after all of the legitament amp companies out there stealing and making money off of his designs then great I have no problem with that. You want to go after people selling stuff with a TW logo then fine I agree with that. Just leave us hobbiests out of it.
"I feel bad for the people who buy this stuff and put together mediocre to lousy sounding amps."
WTF I feel sorry for Stephen. He must not get out much. Setting there 24/7 watching ebay for TW piracy and downloading / listening to all of those mediocre to lousy sounding TW clone clips. And if there that bad then what is there to worry about we are never going to get it right anyway.
Re: Did you guys read this?
Ken Fischer had mentioned in an interview that he didn't mind being referred to as a "guru, because a guru is a teacher." I never knew the man, but I know someone who did and his opinion is the same as many here- that Mr. Fischer was quite willing to help others in thier efforts to find good tone. The website quote seems to contradict this. Not to speak for the man, but perhaps he was saying that everyone leaves a personal touch on something they create. Give ten people the same schematics, tools, and parts, and you will get ten different amps. That's what ART is all about.
The experience and knowledge gained through this forum has lead to the creation of a wonderful community sharing ideas and some fantastic tones. Mr. Trainwreck webmaster- don't feel sorry for me.
The experience and knowledge gained through this forum has lead to the creation of a wonderful community sharing ideas and some fantastic tones. Mr. Trainwreck webmaster- don't feel sorry for me.
Re: Did you guys read this?
I'm late to the discussion but I think the motive is obvious. If I had a legendary Trainwreck or two appreciating at about a bazillion dollars a year, I wouldn't want anybody selling clones or making them available. I would want the demand for the legend to remain extremely high and the supply to reamin to be me.
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Guitarfetish
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:58 pm
- Contact:
Re: Did you guys read this?
Well first of all I totally disagree that Kenny was a lousy teacher- because he could not teach anyone to build Trainwrecks- Bullshit.
I used to own an amplifier company called Bedrock. We worked with Kenny quite a bit providing NOS tubes and sockets and parts- Kenny only bought enough stuff to build a few amps at a time and do some repairs- even transformer production runs were pretty small- so guys like us and some of the other Northeast based amp builders all kept in touch with Kenny.
When we had problems on new amp design with oscillation or ground plane issues we'd call Kenny or Gerald Webber. Towards the end of the 90's it got a little harder to find him in a real mood to talk at great length- but when he got going he was a TEACHER- he schooled us and many, many other amp builders in the basics of tube amp circuit design. Obviously he was opinionated as hell- and that's what makes the Trainwrecks so special- they are works of art. One man's handmade expression of the "perfect" guitar tone. We built up a TW circuit in our shop based on nothing more than a phone conversation- sounded great- we didn't think there was any commercial value in it... And we always told Ken we would never steal his shit anyway- he was pretty sensitive about that even before every body started copying him.
On the other hand- for anyone to say no clone can sound as good as a Trainwreck made by Kenny's hand is also pure bullshit. No clone will ever BE a Trainwreck- but he used no magic components and had no magic build methods. He built em up, experimented with lead dress, component values and most importantly tubes- and got them to where they were 100% bulletproof and dialed in. I do think every single TW sounded different- I've played some that sounded very loud and gainy and a touch harsh- and other that we used to call "Marshall Butter"- that big fat thick Marshall lead tone dripping out of the speakers. And when you brought a Trainwreck back to Ken for service he always wanted to totally change the amp! Even HIS ears and opinions changed- and you'd wind up with a better sounding, very different amp.
I last spoke with ken probably 15 years ago or so- before he became famous and long before his legend has grown to such mythic proportions- He was just one of the few really knowledgeable slightly nutty tube guys out there like Gerald Weber, Mark Sampson, Bruce Zinky- Mike Soldano etc. So it's kind of amusing to see the legend grow. But I'm glad someone is protecting the Trainwreck name- Kenny was very generous with his time and his knowledge- as his health allowed obviously- and it's a shame for the Trainwreck sound to be just another commodity traded on ebay for short money.
I used to own an amplifier company called Bedrock. We worked with Kenny quite a bit providing NOS tubes and sockets and parts- Kenny only bought enough stuff to build a few amps at a time and do some repairs- even transformer production runs were pretty small- so guys like us and some of the other Northeast based amp builders all kept in touch with Kenny.
When we had problems on new amp design with oscillation or ground plane issues we'd call Kenny or Gerald Webber. Towards the end of the 90's it got a little harder to find him in a real mood to talk at great length- but when he got going he was a TEACHER- he schooled us and many, many other amp builders in the basics of tube amp circuit design. Obviously he was opinionated as hell- and that's what makes the Trainwrecks so special- they are works of art. One man's handmade expression of the "perfect" guitar tone. We built up a TW circuit in our shop based on nothing more than a phone conversation- sounded great- we didn't think there was any commercial value in it... And we always told Ken we would never steal his shit anyway- he was pretty sensitive about that even before every body started copying him.
On the other hand- for anyone to say no clone can sound as good as a Trainwreck made by Kenny's hand is also pure bullshit. No clone will ever BE a Trainwreck- but he used no magic components and had no magic build methods. He built em up, experimented with lead dress, component values and most importantly tubes- and got them to where they were 100% bulletproof and dialed in. I do think every single TW sounded different- I've played some that sounded very loud and gainy and a touch harsh- and other that we used to call "Marshall Butter"- that big fat thick Marshall lead tone dripping out of the speakers. And when you brought a Trainwreck back to Ken for service he always wanted to totally change the amp! Even HIS ears and opinions changed- and you'd wind up with a better sounding, very different amp.
I last spoke with ken probably 15 years ago or so- before he became famous and long before his legend has grown to such mythic proportions- He was just one of the few really knowledgeable slightly nutty tube guys out there like Gerald Weber, Mark Sampson, Bruce Zinky- Mike Soldano etc. So it's kind of amusing to see the legend grow. But I'm glad someone is protecting the Trainwreck name- Kenny was very generous with his time and his knowledge- as his health allowed obviously- and it's a shame for the Trainwreck sound to be just another commodity traded on ebay for short money.
Last edited by Guitarfetish on Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Did you guys read this?
I feel sorry for Stephen. His 15 minutes is over. I do however have a few comments to add to the TW owners and their minions who continually bash builders and TW enthusiasts...
Before the Yahoo groups>TWreck.com> and eventually ampgarage.com, TW's were virtually unknown. Around three years ago they were worth between 8-10K due to the interest that the forums above created. When Omar posted pics of Francesca (first complete set), TW mania started. Many people started building clones and the build quality and closeness of tone to the original was finally achieved. The value climbed as more people found out about the amps and the information trickled down to people with deep pockets. The amp went to the 14-20K mark. As some people made better sounding clones, interest was generated with the people to which money was no barrier causing the amps to jump to 20K+. With Ken's death, Investors and sellers had a field day and pushed the amps to over 50K in some examples. The market has settled back to 20-25K after the mania has calmed down.
People buying a TW for $1500 20 years ago have seen a 1000%+ increase in value due to forums like these and the replica market. Ken himself, who middlemanned many of the TW resales, made more from their resales then their original purchases. It's a little hypocritical for them to bash anyone discussing, building, or selling clones.
My 2 cents.
Before the Yahoo groups>TWreck.com> and eventually ampgarage.com, TW's were virtually unknown. Around three years ago they were worth between 8-10K due to the interest that the forums above created. When Omar posted pics of Francesca (first complete set), TW mania started. Many people started building clones and the build quality and closeness of tone to the original was finally achieved. The value climbed as more people found out about the amps and the information trickled down to people with deep pockets. The amp went to the 14-20K mark. As some people made better sounding clones, interest was generated with the people to which money was no barrier causing the amps to jump to 20K+. With Ken's death, Investors and sellers had a field day and pushed the amps to over 50K in some examples. The market has settled back to 20-25K after the mania has calmed down.
People buying a TW for $1500 20 years ago have seen a 1000%+ increase in value due to forums like these and the replica market. Ken himself, who middlemanned many of the TW resales, made more from their resales then their original purchases. It's a little hypocritical for them to bash anyone discussing, building, or selling clones.
My 2 cents.
Re: Did you guys read this?
Nice first post! So why do you think Kenny couldn't teach others to build his amps for him?Guitarfetish wrote:Well first of all I totally disagree that Kenny was a lousy teacher- because he could not teach anyone to build Trainwrecks- Bullshit.
Re: Did you guys read this?
Welcome Guitarfetish...I have a few of your Alnico 2 sets on me Strats. Great p-u and fast professional service...I appreciate that...
Thanks for interesting anecdote...
Thanks for interesting anecdote...
Re: Did you guys read this?
Allyn is touching on something that feel VERY strongly about. If we didn't have these forums, in short time these amps would not be heard by anybody. They have already become a legend, and as soon as prices started rising people who have NO interest in music would/will buy them up and you will NEVER hear them again because they are an investment.
I feel that the bigger point here is that we are dinosaurs but we can't deal with it. We should fight very hard to keep tube technology, a la tube guitar amps, alive. We can still be dinosaurs and stay endagered, but not not become extinct. If these great amp designs die with their owners and inventors, don't complain to me about the sound of modelling amps because that's all you'll hear. We should be ramming great tube amps down our kids throats, not vacuum selaing them and hiding them in our closets.
This forum and a few others that I (and I'm sure a lot of others) visit are so sharing and entusiastic about great tube tone that it makes me think that we actually have a chance. I've yet to post a question without getting tonnes of helpful responses. Even people who aren't that knowledgable yet are TRYING to answer, even if they provide misinformation and start flames wars. It doesn't matter, let's just keep it alive.
Darrin
I feel that the bigger point here is that we are dinosaurs but we can't deal with it. We should fight very hard to keep tube technology, a la tube guitar amps, alive. We can still be dinosaurs and stay endagered, but not not become extinct. If these great amp designs die with their owners and inventors, don't complain to me about the sound of modelling amps because that's all you'll hear. We should be ramming great tube amps down our kids throats, not vacuum selaing them and hiding them in our closets.
This forum and a few others that I (and I'm sure a lot of others) visit are so sharing and entusiastic about great tube tone that it makes me think that we actually have a chance. I've yet to post a question without getting tonnes of helpful responses. Even people who aren't that knowledgable yet are TRYING to answer, even if they provide misinformation and start flames wars. It doesn't matter, let's just keep it alive.
Darrin