Anybody measuring SPLs at their live gigs?

[bcmatt]

I'm just sort of curious if anyone has a meter and measures their levels at gigs or in church or anything. I'm curious what is common... not that I have a meter myself.

My band plays pub gigs all over the place, and if we do have to do our own sound, we are trying to not be TOO loud. People should be able to still order food and drinks from a waitress if they scream in her face.

We also play in churches about just as often (mostly different music but same band).

Anyways, about a week ago we played at a church (in the city we are currently at for about a month) and did 3 services in about a 500 person sanctuary with a balcony. They have a very nice new sound system with a fancy Allen&Heath iLive board etc. Anyways, the amp was miked backstage (and I still had the VVR too low for my liking - should have put it in another room down a hallway). The sound-guy said they shoot to not go over about 85 dB out in the "audience" for services otherwise they get comment cards about it being too loud. That just seemed crazy quiet. Stage volume was low too... so low that I felt like everyone could hear me tapping in the tempo on my delay during a song... so awkward.
I can understand that some pensioners can't handle much volume, but playing that quiet sure takes a lot of fun and momentum out of "doing church".

Anyways, I'm just curious what sorts of measured levels guys are playing at. Anyone ever had to play that quietly?
I guess that's a setting where a Tweed Champ is too loud to mic up on the actual stage.

[Reeltarded]

hahaha why do people even play live music anymore?

Live I am about 112. Was just saying yesterday that I used to get a hair and run it up to tickle both ears. That is around 120 just me and if you can do it on both ears at the same time it's probably REALLY loud all over.

Most cars make 85 on a decent road from tire scrub. That is silly. Where is the measurment made from? What scale? Do you know?

[bcmatt]

I don't know anything about scales in this context, sorry.

The SPL meter is up in the sound booth.. at the front centre of the balcony. I guess about 40 feet back from the stage 15 feet in the air (rough guesses). I doubt it is any quieter there than most places in the room because the PA is supposed to be well designed to spread the sound very evenly to all parts of the room.

You can sort of see the room in this pic of the board up in the balcony. The stage is in the background at the top of the photo. I just happened to have this pic for fun on my phone from a few weeks ago when I was enamored with all the pretty lights.

[Reeltarded]

Aha. I see. 85 at mix position is pretty friendly to everyone and keeps them from talking beyond a whisper. Crowd control.

In the studio I mix at a constant 85db once the faders are all up. It's not so, so very quiet. I hear ya on the clicky noises.. and so does everyone else.

Hard to solo so low.. though. hah I rhymed a rhymn.

[rdjones]

85dB is the standard level for playback in a studio.
It may not be appropriate for live music, particularly with drums and floor monitors.
IEMs and electronic drums is the only way to get stage levels down to where you are left with 85dB in the audience.
A highly reverberant church setting also contributes to average levels.

I've had to limit levels to 105dB in a school gymnasium and it was difficult to get 2 competing guitars and a drumset down to that level in front of a bunch on excited kids.

rd

[Reeltarded]

I've had to limit levels to 105dB in a school gymnasium and it was difficult to get 2 competing guitars and a drumset down to that level in front of a bunch on excited kids.

rd

May I suggest ear plugs with gun mufflers?

rofl

[NickC]

85dB for live rock-n-roll? That's ridiculous! No way! Some cell phone ring-tones are more than 85dB!

I silently talk-to-myself at 85dB.

Well, they can try it, but it'll never catch on.

[stelligan]

WHAT?

[Reeltarded]

Nick, hold it down man. You are typing like 6db over the limit.

[bcmatt]

I agree that it will never catch on for Rock & Roll.
I seriously feel stupid during any solos at that level. You can not put any feeling in for electric guitar at that level. I challenge anyone to try.
Even most Bar gigs we do which are much louder (I'm curious what our levels are on stage - 110?) I still find I am right around that volume where I wish I could turn it up a bit more without bothering anyone because certain songs are painful unless I can ride a bit of feedback.

I think even for a church congregation with a high percentage of senior citizens, that is an unusually low volume level to shoot for.

The drums have a plexi-glass shield around 3 sides of them so there is some leak from the stage. But the drummers learn pretty good volume control... still that is usually the limiting factor on how low they can go... but I notice the electric guitar is always painfully low in the mix. At least my band is just a 3-piece so they can only turn me down so much before they just have bass and drums.
Anyways, it is just the church we visit while in this city, but we don't live here or anything, and most other churches are fine with us not being as painfully quiet... bars allow a bit more, but the rooms are often tighter, and people aren't there to necessarily sing along with you...

That is the other factor, I think for this church's thinking on the low volume. A pastor mentioned they like the congregation to be heard singing along with the band. It was true; we could hear them singing along easily. I like that from the musician standpoint, but when I am in the congregation I actually hate hearing the band that low because I feel pretty self-conscious how easily my voice is heard in the congregation. A loud church band allows you to get into it and sing as loud as you want without feeling like people around being distracted by any bad harmonies I come up with.

[Zippy]

I seriously feel stupid during any solos at that level. You can not put any feeling in for electric guitar at that level. I challenge anyone to try.

You could try wearing isolation headphones that are cranked up so it SEEMS loud to you. Of course, then the audience would hear you humming and grunting during the solos...

No good answer.

How's the money? Is it worth the effort to play if it's this much trouble?

[NickC]

Sometimes the most efficacious solutions come from thinking out of the box.

http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Uncorded- ... B0006GWRY0

[img:288:288]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31-%2B1PgfQ1L.jpg[/img]

Economical pricing for 200 bulk pair loose per box. Only 22 cents per audience member.

[bcmatt]

I seriously feel stupid during any solos at that level. You can not put any feeling in for electric guitar at that level. I challenge anyone to try.

You could try wearing isolation headphones that are cranked up so it SEEMS loud to you. Of course, then the audience would hear you humming and grunting during the solos...

No good answer.

How's the money? Is it worth the effort to play if it's this much trouble?

It's not a frequent enough problem for me to get hung up about. Even though that place was quiet, we still enjoyed ourselves. I didn't really do any solos there anyways. It's just a matter of curiosity about the sound level. It seemed unusually quiet and I wanted to know how typical 85dB max was. It seems that good sounds systems these days can quite efficiently spread sound while keeping room volume quite low. Was wondering if anyone else takes advantage of the technology to get volumes THAT low. Of course, my preference is to be louder, but it always is. I can count on my elbows the number of times I've ever been able to use my liverpool without the VVR.

[bcmatt]

Sometimes the most efficacious solutions come from thinking out of the box.

http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Uncorded- ... B0006GWRY0

[img:288:288]http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31-%2B1PgfQ1L.jpg[/img]

Economical pricing for 200 bulk pair loose per box. Only 22 cents per audience member.

Ya, that's actually a common solution for churches that have decided that that they are going to keep the sound around 100dB or so. They direct complaints to the complimentary earplugs instead of lowering the volume.

[NickC]

...................

Ya, that's actually a common solution for churches that have decided that that they are going to keep the sound around 100dB or so. They direct complaints to the complimentary earplugs instead of lowering the volume.

The Bose L-System (or comparable, I use the Fishman SA220 variant for small acoustic-type gigs) might be another solution. The advantage of the Bose L-System is it also serves as onstage monitor system, and spreads the sound more evenly throughout the venue.