Do old school tube amps have more mojo then newer tube amps?

[Christian Jams]

I have a 1960 Airline 62-9012 amp made by Danelectro. The 6v6 in the Airline seems to have more compression and darker character than the my Heathkit A9 with 6L6s.
Can the same be said for the 6SC7 compared to the 12AX7. I am asking this because I want to build an old school Fender Deluxe 5C3

[10thTx]

Having owned & played old tube amps and new ones............. no, I don't think the old ones have more "better" than the new ones. They're just different. I think I first picked up & started playing an electric in around '65? Lots of yrs that I didn't play at all though.

They each address a unique tone of their own.

With respect, 10thx

[Gaz]

Apples and oranges. It's hard to make generalizations about tube types in different amps. The tube type itself is only one factor in the tone of an amp.

[Christian Jams]

oh...ok so there is more to this "mojo" then just the tubes themselves

[Gaz]

No mojo at all, just science

[Christian Jams]

So mojo is nothing more then science. I can see that. Like the impurities in the carbon of the older resistor can be a factor.

[Christian Jams]

I have been trying to absorb as much tube stuff as can lately. Its like I have an addiction or something lol. Thanks to all. Happy New Year! Oh by the way here is the diagram I am using. If anybody can think of any mods for it let me know. I picked it because I have an old Hammond organ preamp & amp that I will be getting most of my parts from.

[Gaz]

Haha, well as you've probably already observed, learning why tube amps sound the way they do is a lifelong endeavor

Build the amp, see how you like, then begin the modding madness. There are many helpful experienced people here to help you along the way.

[LeftyStrat]

Pots change with age. CC resistors change with age. The amps that age to better sound are kept. The amps that age badly are forgotten.

Leo Fender was a businessman, not a musician. Jim Marshall was a drummer, not a guitarist. Though I think both were a lost breed of businessmen that listened to their customers. (Not entirely true, Dr Z, Fuchs, Suhr, and many others still do. Megacorp, not so much).

Chinese slave labor at their best could lead to a consistent amp. Hopefully, most boutique builders would never let an amp leave their shop that wasn't compelling.

I have a love/hate relationship with consistency. Spent many of my years in manufacturing. When you have a bell curve to chop off the extremes, you kill the good with the bad.

No manufacturer or builder can afford to spend as much attention to detail as you can, though it takes an enormous investment in time and learning. I find it a quite worthy investment.

[rp]

Leo Fender was a businessman, not a musician. Jim Marshall was a drummer, not a guitarist. Though I think both were a lost breed of businessmen that listened to their customers. (Not entirely true, Dr Z, Fuchs, Suhr, and many others still do. Megacorp, not so much).

My dad was one of the very important accordion builders (born 1902 and no I'm not that old, he had me very very late in life.) We were pretty much the Steinway of the accordion from the '30s-'60s. Most of the developments during that golden age when the concert accordion was developed were his ideas and patents. I came after he was retired and know little of the lore but one day I asked why he never learned to play and he told me a story that he had asked one of the virtuosos in his stable, maybe Magnante but I don't recall, to teach him how to play the thing. He'd been working full time in the trade since age five in Italy when he would pick up wood shavings off the factory floor and run around keeping the glue pots going. By 15 he had already mastered bass-boxes and moved to NYC and did the rags to riches thing. Later at the top of his game owning his own factories in the US and Italy he figured finally learning how to play the damn thing would make him an even better builder. Anyway, the great master told my dad flat out, "no lessons, sorry!" My dad was shocked, and the guy goes, "I'll tell you why, if i teach you how to play you'll start following your own ideas and stop listening to the musicians. Your accordions are the best 'cause you have the all the best players and you listen to them."

[LeftyStrat]

Wow rp, thanks for sharing that. Very interesting perspective.

[martin manning]

That is a great story, rp!

I think new tube amps suffer from cost pressure on all of the components, perhaps most noticably in the smaller transformers seen today. I also think that the effect of many small changes that individually do not seem to affect the sound quality at all add up over time until it becomes obvious that something has been lost. Then nobody can figure out what did it!

[Structo]

Yep, aging and drifting component values out of tolerances.

Yet, some amps do not improve with age.

Usually, it's just like guitars, the beat up ones are the good ones because they sounded good and they have been played and played over the years.

I don't think all vintage amps and guitars are necessarily good, there are always the dogs that just didn't that great from the get go.

Leo Fender was known as a thrifty businessman.
Sure he wanted a good product, but he also wanted to keep a good product margin to help the company grow and employees prosper.

[rp]

Leo Fender was known as a thrifty businessman.
Sure he wanted a good product, but he also wanted to keep a good product margin to help the company grow and employees prosper.

Part of the thrift is that he didn't want stuff coming back for repair, or disappointed non returning customers, hence the solid build. Ah, the days of long term perspective!
IMO there is one mojo to old tube amps - simplicity of the circuits. Sure makes for a great sounding amp, at least if you're into chewy vintage tones.

Buon' Anno Nuovo y'all.

[martin manning]

I can't recall if this is the exact quote, but Leo is supposed to have said something like "These cowboys drive around on rough roads with the amp in the back of their truck, and if it bounces out, they still want it to work some."