SSS 01 Layout

[talbany]

Tony - I beg to differ. The layout is close to the schematic that I posted, but there are many changes. Whether the differences are correct or not is an issue. That is why I asked about the source of the schematic.

I took a BRIEF look and here are some issues/questions with the layout/schematic so far:

1. I believe, the wiper of the treble pot should be connected to the outer leg of the volume pot, not the wiper?
2. The lower leg of the bass pot should be connected to ground through 100 Ohms, instead of 10k Ohms?
3. V1A cathode bypass cap should be 5uF or 10uF?
4. V4A grid stopper should be 68k or 56k?
5. V4A should be labeled V4B, on the schematic or layout, since it is connected to pin 7.

Cool!!..The Stack should be wired like 2nd gen

68k grids
10k Bass tail
V1A 10uf bypass

Tony

[vibratoking]

Thanks Tony.

Aaron. I hope you don't mind me double checking. I can't make heads or tails of the layout around V2. Something seems very wrong.

[sergio]

Hi Aaron , great work!! really , looks like the cathode resistor of rev driver is 2.2K and not 1.5K and his cap at least 10uF and not 5uF.

with respect

Sergio

[vibratoking]

Aaron - The PI entrance looks miswired. The 820 Ohm entrance should go to the grids - pins 2&7 not 3&8. Looks like a similar issue on V2.

Is the accent mislabeled? Looks like a bright on the master to me.

Also, PI entrance cap should be 0.01uF or 0.02uF?

[talbany]

For those who don't know much about the SSS but know the Trem circuit in a Twin Reverb..Here is your chance to contribute

The Trem on this is true frequency tremolo (opto bug)..Aaron the Boarderline amp is Bias wiggler(vibrato) so that probably wont help..
My guess is that it's similar to an AB763 trem (with a few tweaks) and perhaps some different values.. Pull up the pic of 001 and cross it with say a AB763 Twin Reverb and check the similarities..My guess is that it's pretty close..

Tony

[wjdunham]

For those who don't know much about the SSS but know the Trem circuit in a Twin Reverb..Here is your chance to contribute

The Trem on this is true frequency vibrato (opto bug)..Aaron the Boarderline amp is Bias wiggler so that probably wont help..
My guess is that it's similar to an AB763 trem (with a few tweaks) and perhaps some different values.. Pull up the pic of 001 and cross it with say a AB763 Twin Reverb and check the similarities..My guess is that it's pretty close..

Tony

I've stared at the trem circuit quite a bit, the right number and type of components there for it to be an AB763 trem, but the values are a bit different, and one can't see the cap values. My guess would be that it's tweaked to get a certain speed range and depth that is different from the original, but the basic circuit is the same. If you build a straight Twin style vibrato you'll be close. Personally, I'd put a bias modulation style in as I find them a bit more pleasing and don't rob the gain/tone like the bug coupled ones.


Bill
www.sebagosound.com

[talbany]

For those who don't know much about the SSS but know the Trem circuit in a Twin Reverb..Here is your chance to contribute

The Trem on this is true frequency vibrato (opto bug)..Aaron the Boarderline amp is Bias wiggler so that probably wont help..
My guess is that it's similar to an AB763 trem (with a few tweaks) and perhaps some different values.. Pull up the pic of 001 and cross it with say a AB763 Twin Reverb and check the similarities..My guess is that it's pretty close..

Tony

I've stared at the trem circuit quite a bit, the right number and type of components there for it to be an AB763 trem, but the values are a bit different, and one can't see the cap values. My guess would be that it's tweaked to get a certain speed range and depth that is different from the original, but the basic circuit is the same. If you build a straight Twin style vibrato you'll be close. Personally, I'd put a bias modulation style in as I find them a bit more pleasing and don't rob the gain/tone like the bug coupled ones.


Bill
www.sebagosound.com

Bill Thanks for jumping in..Do you think due to the high voltage bias supply on the CF driver would this pose a problem IYO and maybe why he did the opto in these!

Thanks

Tony

[vibratoking]

Aaron, sorry for all the posts. Just posting as I go through the schematic.

1. GNFB 4.7k or 2.7k?
2. Feedback is applied to PI through a 18k or 24k?
3. PI entrance 0.01 or 0.02uF?

I think it would also help if you label all the tubes with a designator. V1 etc... I will then change the schematic to reflect your designation.


With all due respect,
Larry

[bcook]

I've stared at the trem circuit quite a bit, the right number and type of components there for it to be an AB763 trem, but the values are a bit different, and one can't see the cap values. My guess would be that it's tweaked to get a certain speed range and depth that is different from the original, but the basic circuit is the same. If you build a straight Twin style vibrato you'll be close. Personally, I'd put a bias modulation style in as I find them a bit more pleasing and don't rob the gain/tone like the bug coupled ones.


Bill
www.sebagosound.com

The Hotel Hog looks to be an exact AB763 tremolo, so it's probably a safe bet without a better picture to go by.

[CHIP]

Here's a closeup of a '64 Super Reverb vibrato, if it helps.

[Max]

The Trem on this is true frequency vibrato (opto bug)..Aaron the Boarderline amp is Bias wiggler so that probably wont help..
My guess is that it's similar to an AB763 trem (with a few tweaks) and perhaps some different values.. Pull up the pic of 001 and cross it with say a AB763 Twin Reverb and check the similarities..My guess is that it's pretty close..

Tony, AFAIR the Soldano Surf Box (picture attached) - in addition to a tremolo circuit - has a frequency vibrato circuit, too and isn't gooped. So if someone here has a Surf Box he could perhaps check if its vibrato circuit looks to be similar to the one of SSS #001. And AFAIR there are other amps - like some Magnatone amps - with frequency vibrato circuits, too.

Picture source: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... 200204.JPG

Cheers,

Max

[wjdunham]

Bill Thanks for jumping in..Do you think due to the high voltage bias supply on the CF driver would this pose a problem IYO and maybe why he did the opto in these!

Thanks

Tony

Very good point Tony, but I think the bias mod circuit would work the same way in an amp with a CF driving the power tubes and a ~-200V bias on the CF grids (which is what effectively sets up the proper bias voltage on the power tube grids). The modulation waveform is AC coupled on to the bias voltage, so it should work just fine.

Bill

[talbany]

Bill Thanks for jumping in..Do you think due to the high voltage bias supply on the CF driver would this pose a problem IYO and maybe why he did the opto in these!

Thanks

Tony

Very good point Tony, but I think the bias mod circuit would work the same way in an amp with a CF driving the power tubes and a ~-200V bias on the CF grids (which is what effectively sets up the proper bias voltage on the power tube grids). The modulation waveform is AC coupled on to the bias voltage, so it should work just fine.

Bill

Bill
Thanks for the great explanation..You probably already told me this at one point!!

Tony, AFAIR the Soldano Surf Box (picture attached) - in addition to a tremolo circuit - has a frequency vibrato circuit, too and isn't gooped. So if someone here has a Surf Box he could perhaps check if its vibrato circuit looks to be similar to the one of SSS #001. And AFAIR there are other amps - like some Magnatone amps - with frequency vibrato circuits, too.

Picture source: http://personalpages.manchester.ac.uk/s ... 200204.JPG

Cheers,

Max

Max
Thanks for the heads up on the surf box..I have no info on that one so if someone else does perhaps we can peek inside..
The Magnitone trem is a godd sounding one and I do remember looking at that (as a cross refrence) when Bill and I were looking at the pics of 001.. I didn't really see to many similarities there between some of the more popular Magnatone trem circuits I had available to me, so I pursued it no further(If you know of one and want to share it I'll take a look)..We sort of decided that the 001 trem more closely resembled that of an AB763 circuit.. We both decided we were not going to go with the trem in our builds as (Bill mentioned) since those trem circuits can be somewhat of a tone sucker..Both Bill and I also understand that negating that trem circuit changes the character of how 001 sounds even with it off but we decided not to use it anyway!!..I agree that's it's a good idea to add it to the layout for the sake of accuracy and if someone wants to build one without the trem it would be and easy chop from the circuit..

Thanks for the help!!

Tony

[Aaron]

First of, a big thank you to everyone for their input. I don't live in a highly populated Dumble country so I'll never be able to contribute any first hand information.
But I can stare at pictures (or in this case picture) and try and draw up schematics and layouts.

vibratoking Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:24 pm Post subject:

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Tony - I beg to differ. The layout is close to the schematic that I posted, but there are many changes. Whether the differences are correct or not is an issue. That is why I asked about the source of the schematic.

I took a BRIEF look and here are some issues/questions with the layout/schematic so far:

1. I believe, the wiper of the treble pot should be connected to the outer leg of the volume pot, not the wiper?
2. The lower leg of the bass pot should be connected to ground through 100 Ohms, instead of 10k Ohms?
3. V1A cathode bypass cap should be 5uF or 10uF?
4. V4A grid stopper should be 68k or 56k?
5. V4A should be labeled V4B, on the schematic or layout, since it is connected to pin 7.

1. Have fixed the connection. (Which means Tony that the 2nd gen and #40 layout in the files section is connected wrong too).
2. Tonestack is wired as per 2nd gen.
3. Changed to 10uf.
4. Can definatley see blue-grey-orange in the pic.
5. I know, pins 7-8-9 are actually stage 1 and 1-2-3 are stage 2, but it always confuses the hell out of me

vibratoking Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject:

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Thanks Tony.

Aaron. I hope you don't mind me double checking. I can't make heads or tails of the layout around V2. Something seems very wrong.

Please double check. It took me ages of staring and playing connect the dots. Remember the dotted lines are the circuit board underneath and the blue lines are wiring on top.

sergio Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject:

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Hi Aaron , great work!! really , looks like the cathode resistor of rev driver is 2.2K and not 1.5K and his cap at least 10uF and not 5uF.

with respect

Sergio

Changed to 2k2. And cap is 25uf as per SSS 002

vibratoking Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:59 pm Post subject:

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Aaron - The PI entrance looks miswired. The 820 Ohm entrance should go to the grids - pins 2&7 not 3&8. Looks like a similar issue on V2.

Is the accent mislabeled? Looks like a bright on the master to me.

Also, PI entrance cap should be 0.01uF or 0.02uF?

Pins 2 & 7 have green wires connecting to the .1uf/1M. 3 & 8 have the yellow wire connected to the 820 as per standard P.I
I'll check my notes on the accent switch. SSS 02 has .001, but 2nd gen has 1uf.
The P.I entrance cap looks like .02uf as it's bigger than the .01 in the mixer stage.

vibratoking Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:27 pm Post subject:

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Aaron, sorry for all the posts. Just posting as I go through the schematic.

1. GNFB 4.7k or 2.7k?
2. Feedback is applied to PI through a 18k or 24k?
3. PI entrance 0.01 or 0.02uF?

I think it would also help if you label all the tubes with a designator. V1 etc... I will then change the schematic to reflect your designation.


With all due respect,
Larry

1. Changed back to 4k7. I did have 2k7 as per SSS 002
2. I think it's 18k. I squinted at this for ages and it looks like it could be brown-grey??????? Then went of SSS 02.
3. As per above post

If I've missed anything let me know.

Now lets get tremelo sorted out

[Max]

Now lets get tremelo sorted out

AFAIR what Henry Kaiser once told me (around twenty years ago) concerning the vibrato of #001 Alexander Dumble told him, that he built a real frequency vibrato into #001. But of course it's possible that Henry misinterpreted something Alexander told him.

But if Henry didn't misunderstand Alexander and I remember right what Henry told me, than this might not be a tremolo but an electronic vibrato. And AFAIR on the front of #001 the two "rate" and "modulation" pots a both labeled "vibrato" on top of them. And the controls of the tremolo of the Borderline Special and ODS #0121 are labeled "tremolo" on top of them.

And if the info you find here http://www.vibroworld.com/magnatone/vibrato.html is correct and I don't misunderstand it, then a Fender amp with a real vibrato doesn't exist. But perhaps the technical experts here can see on the #001 picture what's exactly going on and if Henry Kaiser remembered right or wrong what Alexander Dumble told him?

Cheers,

Max